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THIS is a forum for questions and answers about blacksmithing and general metalworking. Ask the Guru any reasonable question and he or one of his helpers will answer your question, find someone that can, OR research the question for you.

This is an archive of posts from April 22 - 30, 2012 on the Guru's Den
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anvil prices : we have a peter wright 601 lb anvil and were looking to sell it with some other gear like swage block and leg vice and asmaller 250lb anvil make unknown just trying to get a price guide
   peter - Sunday, 04/22/12 06:17:53 EDT

Prices :
Peter, The variables include brand, condition, location, buyer, seller, market and time. In the U.S. to achieve the highest price takes time and marketing. There are dealers that consistently get $8 - $10 pound (more than for new anvils) for first class old anvils but this takes time, patience, marketing. Most sellers get closer to $4 - $6 pound for first class anvils in good condition.

Location makes a big difference. There are places in the U.S. and Europe where there is a large supply of old anvils and proportionately less demand. There are other places in the world where anvils are very rare but the demand is also very low. To achieve the top prices your customer may need to be willing ship the tools a long distance. Currently there is an international market in anvils with great ranges of distance and costs. Few individual anvils ship internationally but due to lower cost per unit dozens often ship at one time.

In countries with low availability and high demand prices often reflect what it would cost to purchase an anvil and ship it internationally.

Swage blocks sell for about what anvils do but due to rarity often a bit more.

Leg vises originally sold by the pound and were priced higher than anvils due to their complexity. However, old vises have been under valued for decades. A couple dollars a pound is typical.
   - guru - Sunday, 04/22/12 11:15:44 EDT

Anvil Decoration :
It was recently asserted that anvil makers would not go to a lot of trouble to put decorative features on an anvil. This is an erroneous statement. Both ancient and modern makers have applied art and decoration to anvils.

While anvils should be a mostly form follows function tool everything below the working surfaces is art. If you look at the feet of anvils they vary from pinched points, to tear drops to squared blocks - all for art. Old style Mediterranean anvils (those waistless pig type anvils) had curved feet, feet with a decorative ogee, and hoof like feet. The majority of anvils are symmetrical in more than on view - a feature prized by humans for purely artistic reasons.

There are several types of wrought anvil construction methods . The early types were built up from merchant bar (about 1 x 2" x XX). You can see this in the steps, feet and projections of many French Norman region anvils. Later anvils were made from large consolidated blocks with additions for the feet and horns. Extending feet was largely a matter of style (a feature of art and decoration). The space between the feet on modern anvils is blended into the body with a graceful curve and the cut of the line makes a pleasing shape on the side of the body that would be easier to blend in than to make a crisp line. That line is decorative art.

On the German / Austrian style anvil (with church windows) the feet have steps that serve no purpose other than that it was an easy way to make a braced foot by the build up method AND it looked attractive, the steps looking like steps on a building. Some of these anvils have a pleasant ogee shape on the middle step. This is PURE decoration requiring a lot of effort on a hand made anvil.

The horn on the modern English anvil developed from a cone to a highly stylized organically shaped Rhinoceros horn with a slight anthropomorphic upturn. The popular pinched waist of anvil gives it a sexual appeal. These are carefully designed artistic features that do not need to be so graceful other than for artistic reasons and to please the human eye.

Anvils have had fluted architectural columns, faces, ogees, raised lines and corners (difficult to do in a forging), symmetry all for art and decoration.

In the world of heavy iron it is not just anvils that have had style and decoration. 19th century machinery was built with fluted architectural columns, scrolls, moldings and all sorts of added decoration. In the 20th century this fell to the streamlined style of machinery construction with gracefully blended lines and smooth rounded shapes. It was high style. Even the modern squared off "style less" machinery is a style. Parts of machinery housings that would be better round or tapered following their function are made square. . . It is decoration. Decoration follows trends but is often a way of distinguishing a product from that of others.

To say that anvil manufacturers would not apply decorative features to their product for purely artistic reasons is a ridiculous assertion. They have done so for a thousand years and continue to do so.
   - guru - Sunday, 04/22/12 18:27:20 EDT

Anvil Decoration : My large RAT Hole anvil has church windows and a fifth foot,something Mr. Fontini did not have to cast in the anvils but it looks good. I use this anvil daily in a small production shop and in my opinion is one of the best new anvils on the market.
   Greg S - Sunday, 04/22/12 19:10:57 EDT

40 ton Ironworker : Has any one tried to use a scotchman 40 ton ironworker for forging? I have the opportunity to buy one used for a great price. it doesn't have any dies, but i was thinking about making dies to fit the punching side of the machine for forging. the ironworker would be used for its normal functions but if it can be used for forging it would save me from putting money into a separate press. any thoughts? thanks
   T. Van Krevelen - Sunday, 04/22/12 21:33:27 EDT

Sure, you can do hot work on any kind of press as long as you have determined that the work is within its capacity. If the work is over capacity (or cools to over capacity) then something WILL break or be damaged. If this is a hydraulic press then it is self limiting. If it is a mechanical flywheel and clutch type then it has 15 to 20 times it rated capacity at stall. A stall point on a flywheel driven machine (other than fly presses) something breaks. Flypresses are the exception because they are designed to operate at full inertial load.

You have to look at the specs for the machine, travel, power, die space and then look at the type of job you want to do with it and do the math. If you can't do the math then you have to stick to the factory recommended dies and capacities for those dies.
   - guru - Sunday, 04/22/12 23:01:20 EDT

files : Im a beginner and I was pounding an old file and found the metal much more difficult to move around than the normal cold rolled I use. If I continue to use metal that is hard do I need to do anything to it prior to using it?
   jeff s - Monday, 04/23/12 00:00:22 EDT

Ironworker forging : I have a Metal Pro, a lightly built ironworker. It is 40 ton at the punch station. I have done a little forging with it.

I don't think You should put the forging dies in the punch station and use the punch guide to guide Your forging dies. The punch guide system [at least on Mine] isn't designed to take much side loading, so don't wreck it if You plan to use it for hole punching.

Instead, it would be better to build seperate forging station with it's own guides, something like a smithing magician, or tooling built into a commercial die set.
   - Dave Boyer - Monday, 04/23/12 00:16:15 EDT

Jeff s - files : You have to work them really hot, as carbon steel is harder to move under the hammer. 1900f is a good maximum starting temperature. If the file makes sparks when You remove it from the forge it is too hot.
   - Dave Boyer - Monday, 04/23/12 00:29:28 EDT

On wood: when building outdoor decking, we slam the boards together as tight as possible, nail 'em in and keep going. We use standard pressure treated fresh lumber. After a month or so (with proper humidity) shrinkage occurs and you get a nice 1/4" gap between boards that we are all used to seeing. I have seen some bad amateur work where they didn't know about shrinkage, they like the 1/4" gap and actually nail boards in at that size apart from eachother. Do I have to go on about what happens later? You can lose a toe in one of those gaps!

HB, I have one.... took a LONG time to find the "BROOKLYN" stamp. Off to the left and on a bad angle, but it's there. I believe this anvil to have been flooded because there is NO markings anywhere else on it.

Ironworker, I have a contact for someone selling one. Real nice one too! Interested parties may get in touch at Nippulini(at)aol(dot)com
   - Nippulini - Monday, 04/23/12 08:34:42 EDT

Reworking Files :
Jeff, Files are a tool steel. Yes it is tougher to work than mild steel. You do not want to work them too hot OR too cold. Do not quench during or after forging.

What you do when you are finished depends on what you are making. Tool steels need to be heat treated. They need to be heated to the hardening temperature (usually a bit above non magnetic), quenched in warm water brine or oil (depending on the steel) then reheated to temper the steel.

Often annealing or normalizing is recommended before the hardening to condition the steel. To do this you heat the steel to the non-magnetic point and then let cool as slow as possible. Cooling is often done in ashes, quick lime, vermiculite or kaowool. Most alloy tool steels need to be cooled in a temperature controlled furnace.

Tempering is required of almost all hardenable steels. Tempering reduces hardness a little and brittleness a LOT. Tempering temperatures vary from a low of about 350°F (177°C) to 1400°F; (760°C). On plain carbon steels blacksmiths usually judge this by temper color. Note that the steel must have scale removed and have a bright surface to see the temper colors.

How hard the steel needs to be depends on use. A general rule is that for strength and toughness a tool should never be any harder than it needs to be. This is difficult to know. There are many books and references with recommendations for various tools. However, these recommendations are often steel dependent.

Files are often used as-quenched for the maximum hardness. But as a result files break fairly easily. A minimum temper of about 400°F (204°C) is recommended for everything else. This can be obtained with a kitchen or countertop oven. Since it is recommended to temper immediately after hardening and before the steel reaches room temperature in many cases this minimum temper is handy followed by a full temper at higher temperature later.

After a minimum temper the part can be tempered to a softer temper. What you cannot do is increase the hardness without starting at the beginning with the hardening step. So retempering and double tempering (tempering twice at the same temperature) are not a problem.

If you were not intending to make a hard tool and did not plan on all this find some mild steel to work and save the files for other things.
   - guru - Monday, 04/23/12 09:04:25 EDT

Treated Lumber : Salt treated lumber has the water and salts forced into the wood under pressure so high that it breaks down the cellular structure of the wood. It is then racked and sold saturated. . The water level varies a great deal according to how long it has been from the treatment plant and where on the stack the boards are. However, immediately after treatment the lumber has more water in it than nature puts in - thus a LOT of shrinkage.

I've used a lot of treated lumber (built my entire shop from it) and was disappointed in how punky and weak the lumber was compared to regular pine lumber. I knew something about the treatment process did something to the wood. It was only later that I read about how the process breaks down the cells in the lumber.

In wood for strength the best is air-dry (takes years). There is no cell damage.

Kiln drying causes some cell damage but makes more stable wood.

Pressure treated lumber has the most cell damage and thus is the weakest condition lumber. The plus side is that it resists rot. But it is also sold fully wet and shrinks a LOT.

I often wonder about the engineered trusses that are based on Southern Yellow Pine and the fact that most are actually made from common pine. I also wonder if the change in lumber dimensions has been taken into account. . .
   - guru - Monday, 04/23/12 09:27:25 EDT

I didn't actually build the entire shop from treated lumber but wished I had. The primary framing (6x6 posts), caps, some other framing and all the board and batten sheathing was salt treated. The posts were bolted to 4 x 4 x 3/8" angle iron brackets held by anchors in the concrete. Lots of galvanized hardware. . . 1/2" bolts and threaded rod was used in all the right angle joints along with more angle iron brackets. The building was built to withstand floods and could probably take wind and storm loads that would flatten standard construction. It also has a heavy mono-rail crane supported by special bi-directional trusses. . . I really hate losing that shop.
   - guru - Tuesday, 04/24/12 12:51:19 EDT

True 2 X 4s, etc. : I found one, once, lying around in the old meat house, which was built around the turn of the previous century out of hand-hewn beams from another building. It threw me off when I tried to combine it with some other dimensional lumber. Probably dated from the early 1920s, when they built the "new house" to replace the antebellum structure (dwelling, general store, post office and bar) that burned down. Rough finish, but hey, it didn't have to be pretty, just useful.

I used a lot of pressure treated on the new forge, especially on sills and primary posts. Not only did it vary in dimensions, even length, from the standard studs, but was (being moist) noticeably heavier. So far, no problems from shrinkage, but that may be from my loose ("medieval") construction style.

It actually rained a good bit on the banks of the lower Potomac, and on the Shenandoah up near the Spring Fling last weekend. And it got cold, too. We needed the rain, but a skinny fellow like me has some trouble with the cold and I actually had to retreat from the last demonstration!

Good job by the Blacksmiths' Guild of the Potomac! (http://bgop.org/ )
   Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Tuesday, 04/24/12 21:50:35 EDT

2/4"s : As a grade schooler, I assisted my Family in rehabilitating an old country home for our occupation. The original home was built in about 1910, and was rough cut 2x4 red oak structuals. These were a solid 2x4 no under/over. Dad was removing a wall, and had to cut the studs out. He burnt up a circular saw cutting those 50 year dry studs. He went to the local hardware/general store/funeral home/lumber yard and bought a new B&D 7" circular saw.This was in 1964. All aluminum housing and the price was $19.99. He used that saw all his remaining life, and loaned it to me when I rehabilitated my first home a 1900 shotgun house in Louisville that also had rough cut red oak structuals that were the full demension. I inherited that saw, with the price sticker intact, and still use it. Still strong and cuts great, but it is somewhat heavy compaered to the newer saws.
   ptree - Thursday, 04/26/12 12:46:13 EDT

Good Ol' Tools :
The first circular saw I bought was a 7-1/2" Craftsman that was on sale at Sears for $12.99 in 1972. It was a light duty saw but I used it for years slicing up plywood and building my shop. It ran perfectly for many years until I put a friction cutting wheel on it to cut some steel tubing. . . Just a few cuts and the grit got into everything. The first noticeable thing was the guard would not work smoothly and the heat from the sparks had weakened the return spring. The gear box started making noise. . . It gave up during the shop build and I replaced it with a Heavy Duty Milwaukee. The Milwaukee was not made made saw makers and is heavy despite the aluminum table, cludgy, has poor adjustments but cuts OK. Sometimes heavy duty is not better.
   - guru - Thursday, 04/26/12 14:58:38 EDT

Saws : Which is why I have a pair of Porter Cable circular saws - one blade left, one blade right. Built several houses with them and they still run perfectly. They were true professional tools when I bought them in about 1987 and 25 years later they still are, and parts are still available for them.
   Rich Waugh - Thursday, 04/26/12 16:23:06 EDT

Last Post : I can't get the last post facility to work. Is it you or me who is having problems?
   philip in china - Friday, 04/27/12 01:52:15 EDT

Works fine. However, many of the newer browsers are seriously broken. If you are running Windows 7 and any of the latest browsers many thigs do not work correctly (assuming the last decade of browsers behaved the way they should).
   - guru - Friday, 04/27/12 02:18:20 EDT

Brooks Anvil : Tubal, These are the reasons I think that is a forged anvil. 1)the weight 6-3-5 is stamped and not cast into the side of the anvil , 2)the surface finish/texture is similar to my other forged anvils and 3) the presence of handling holes in the "waist" of the anvil. I don't know what is regarded as modern for Brooks anvils but I think this anvil is certainly pre 1950. I have two other smaller single bick Brooks anvils and they both have the Brooks name and their weight cast "onto" the side of the anvil. I have asked my wife to take some photos of the anvil and send them to me. Would you be interested in seeing them and if so where can I send them to?
   - Louis Powell - Friday, 04/27/12 10:42:48 EDT

Brooks Anvil : Tubal, These are the reasons I think that this Brooks anvil is forged rather than cast.1) The name Brooks and the weight 6-3-5 is stamped and not cast into the side of the anvil. 2) The surface finish is similar to my other forged anvils. 3) There are handling holes in the "waist" of the anvil. I don't know what would be classed as a modern Brooks anvil but I think that this one is certainly pre 1950. I have two other smaller Brooks single bick anvils and they both have the Brooks name and their weight cast "onto" the side. I have asked my wife to take some photos of the anvil and send them to me. If you are keen to see the photos please let me know where to send them.
   Louis Powell - Friday, 04/27/12 11:00:51 EDT

Schools : I have heard of a school in Missouri that has about a 2 week course in bladesmithing, I was wondering if you or anyone on here may know the name of this school? I have looked at Ozark School of Blacksmithing but from what read and what I have been informed by some other smiths this does not seam to be the one I am looking for.
   Shane - Friday, 04/27/12 11:19:00 EDT

Louis, All the Brooks anvils I've seen are cast and have been since the 1970's. I'd be interested in Photos of a wrought Brooks.

Many cast anvils have cast handling holes and some have marking stamped into them but not often. For cast handling holes see:

Hungarian Cast Steel Anvil
   - guru - Friday, 04/27/12 13:06:45 EDT

Shane - I don't know about a two week class, but these guys offer various two day classes. http://www.ozarkknifemakers.com/
   - Bernard Tappel - Friday, 04/27/12 16:34:16 EDT

I am looking to do swords, knifes to start but i really would like to do swords. Like i said i can't remember the name of the school or the instructor. Only that i have been told that he does really good grain structure for his swords.
   Shane - Friday, 04/27/12 17:32:45 EDT

Dear Sir
I have a 6inch leg vice which I am trying to identify its manufacturer. It has the letters M&S stamped into the leading jaw. I am a 56 year old keen shed person living in Australia and love researching these fine old samples of yesteryear.
Thanking You
Ken Toseland
   - Ken Toseland - Friday, 04/27/12 21:21:53 EDT

Gas Forge : I am looking at purchasing a gas forge for my shop. I have been looking at the "NC" forge... and the "Forgemaster".... I would appreciate any guidance on choosing the correct forge.
I am going to be heating the ends of bar stock and flat stock.... ranging from .25" to 1.25" square ... and up to 2" x .375" flat.... I will need to heat several in quick succession.
   Jolley - Saturday, 04/28/12 03:26:30 EDT

Gas Forge : Jolley:

I've used both brands and of the two I'd go with the Forgemaster - it seems a bit hotter and quicker to pull a heat due to the corrugated floor they use. Nothing smaller than a 2-burtner if you're into production.

Have you considered building your own forge? It isn't that difficult to make a very good one if you use the right components. That would allow you to build one that is designed for your specific needs and circumstances.

That said, if you really need to crank the work through like feeding a power hammer, upsetter or press, I'd opt for an induction forge. When you're running multiples of the same size stock, an induction forge of the proper capacity (power) will give a much faster heat (seconds instead of minutes) and little to no scaling since there's no time for the atmosphere to get to the steel. Of course, unless you get whomping big one, they're best suited for fairly short heats up to several inches. And if you live in a place with electric rates like mine, an induction forge wouldn't pay off - I pay 47 cents per kWh. But if you're in a place with the US average rate of $0.11/kWh or lower, then an induction forge can be a significant savings over buying fuel.

   Rich Waugh - Saturday, 04/28/12 12:21:19 EDT

blacksmith term? : I'm a family historian who has just found out that an ancestor was a blacksmith in the late 1800s until 1908 in Michigan but originally from Germany. His death certificate states his occupation as a "tooldenser" but the local directories for him states he was a blacksmith. Was a tooldenser a special term for a particular type of blacksmithing? I know this isn't the typical type of question for you but you are the only site I've found that seems to have a broad knowledge of the blacksmithing occupation. I greatly appreciate any insight you might be able to offer me.
   Ronnie - Saturday, 04/28/12 12:23:49 EDT

badger anvil : im watching a small anvil being sold on ebay as a vulcan but is really a badger. I have a 1931 catalog with its picture in it. They have a notch in the rear foot and a boss beneath the hardy hole. I wonder if its collectible simply because you see so few. It would go well with the ad i have.
   vern kelderman - Saturday, 04/28/12 20:27:35 EDT

ToolDenser?

This is not a German word. Denser or Denzer is not a European language word. It appears to be Pigeon English or a misspelling, typo or misread. If it is a handwritten document it could be phonetic version of what was spoken.

My best guess is Tool Dresser. A Tool Dresser is generally a smith who repoints picks, axes, chisels, bits, pavement breakers by reforging the points or edges. It was a specialty then and it still is today. He may have done the work in his own shop but if someone gave his occupation as Tool Dresser then he probably worked in someone elses shop and may or may not have been a full fledged blacksmith.

City Directories were usually pretty frugal with terms and the data often collected by rather sloppy and almost unscrupoulus means. A door to door data collector (much like today's hone phishers) would knock on the door of a house where a known person lived, misrepresent themselves as a "census" worker and ask ANYONE who answered the door about occupation, religion, who lived in the house, income. . . Minor children were (still are) information sources because they did not know any better. Adults generally treated them as the nosy busy bodies they were so children were sources of opportunity. I caught my young sister talking to one of these guys telling him about private family business, financial information. . . I ran him off.

The city directory listing for my parents said they were Catholic - Neither had a church affiliation since they were children. The information was based on the fact that we have an Irish name and I had 8 brothers and sisters. A bad guess based on a racial stereotype. . .

So, treat city directories as a useful but not necessarily accurate tool. U.S. census data is also questionable in many cases as people often refused to answer and the census taker filled in the blanks on what they saw or guessed at. It is still done today.

Death certificates are filled in by asking ANY nearby grieving relative the pertinent information. . .

My Great Great Great Grandfather Andrew Dempsey was called Judge Dempsey most of his life. In fact he was a merchant and an elected Justice of the Peace on the Western Pennsylvania frontier in the early 1800's. He had no education in law and was not a courtroom judge. He presided over misdeamors brought by the Sheriff and civil weddings.

One of Judge Dempsey's grandsons, my Great Grandfather John C. was a doctor, and MD but for some reason he never practiced medicine. The census lists him as a farmer. Choose.

Sorting out the details of long past lives based on the usual sparse evidence is tough.
   - guru - Sunday, 04/29/12 00:37:56 EDT

Shane, look up the American Bladsmith Society classes in Texarkana AR for a series of great classes and always remember to state which country you are in when asking suck questions on the world wide web

Thomas writing from Brecon Wales UK instead of Socorro NM USA
   Thomas Powers - Sunday, 04/29/12 08:02:40 EDT

Identification and information about a leg post vise : I found a leg post vise at a blacksmithing festival for cheap. It's marked "J.H Thomas & Sons Springfield O. 88"
It's a bit of an odd configuration, I'm thinking there might be a part missing from it, but I'm not sure. I'll be happy to post pictures later.
   Ghrrum - Sunday, 04/29/12 12:01:28 EDT

I'm new : Howdey, my name's Justin, I'm 15 years old and interested in blacksmithing and I have a few questions before I dive into the subject completly blind. 1 water, I've done a bit of research and watched a few how to's for the craft and noticed that most people don't use water to cool their blade. What do you recomend? And is using water a good or bad thing? 2 armor, one of the things I would like to also do next to bladesmithing is make armor (along with other things but that is unimportant at the moment) but I'm not sure where I can get any good references for that. If you could recomend anything that would be greatly appreciated. And 3 wood or leather, both of these are good materials to make hilts but is one thing really better then the other? Thank you for your time, I hope to hear back from you on the subject.
   Justin H - Sunday, 04/29/12 12:15:00 EDT

NEWBIE :
Quenchants: Justin, Different steels require different quenchants to harden them. Water shocks many steels and can cause cracking. Oil is used for these steels because it is a softer quench. Some steels air harden and merely need a breeze to be hardened.

Armouring is a vast subject but there is a good book on the subject Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction, The 14th Century. There are many other reviews of useful books on our book review page.

Wood verses leather is a matter of style and preference as well as place and period if you are doing reproductions. Blade grips vary from solid metal to bone or ivory. Most are wood cored with hide and or wire wraps. Sheaths are made from metal, wood, leather. Modern knife sheaths often have a fibre lining for safety.

Guards are made of iron, steel, brass silver, Damascus, Mokume' Gane' and various combinations of materials.
   - guru - Sunday, 04/29/12 15:24:45 EDT

Gas Forge Preferences :
The problem with gas forges is not the size of the work when you start but the size after you have worked it some. A 1" bar can become 4" wide or a 12" scroll. . .

For every type and size work there is an optimum forge size and shape. If you are heating 1/4" bars, even by the dozen you need a small forge. Normally "quick succession" means having several pieces in the forge and replacing them with new pieces as you take heated pieces out. You want enough pieces that by the time you get to the newest it is hot and ready to go. This depends on how fast the work progresses. If you are forging short ends in dies you may need a dozen pieces in the forge. If you are forging long tapers or complex shapes then only one or two pieces will be necessary to keep things moving without heating the second piece too long.

For production work most of the small forges with lift open doors are not very good. A trough forge or a slit hearth forge are better for heating just the end of many bars. Forges with vertically sliding counterbalanced doors also work for this purpose. You crack the door open just enough to get the work under it.

   - guru - Sunday, 04/29/12 15:40:41 EDT

welding : Greatings from the great white north. (AKA Canada) I've got a welding question. I am a farmer, on one of my pieces of machinery the clevis broke off the piston rod on a hydralic cylinder. The piston rod itself is 1 1/2" in diameter. I am a fairly good welder. What are the best types of rods to use in situation like this. The weld has to be very strong. I have both mig and arc welders. Are 7018 rods OK? Or should I use something with Nickel in it for more elastisity? Should I preheat the pieces in my forge before welding? Thank you for any words of wisdom you have to share.
   Dan - Monday, 04/30/12 20:36:10 EDT

Dan, E7018's are probably close to what was originally used. You are looking for toughness not hardness.
   - guru - Monday, 04/30/12 20:58:04 EDT

Dan Rod clevis's are normally srewed onto the rod, did the rod break or the clevis? Clevis on the better cylinders are normally forged steel, and not heat treated. The rods are a heat treatable grade, and on most better cylinders will be IHCP which is Induction Hardened Chrome Plated. They will have a ground hard chrome over a thick case hardened rod. The case is usually about 15" deep. Pos weld slow cooling is probably a good idea. E-7018, into a good groove prep of clean metal also is advised.
   ptree - Tuesday, 05/01/12 07:13:35 EDT

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