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WELCOME to the Guru's Den!
Ask the Guru any reasonable blacksmithing or metalworking question. He or one of his helpers will answer your question, find someone that can, OR research the question for you. This is an archive of posts from July 1 - 15, 1999 on the Guru's Den |
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The Guru has four helpers that have been given a distinct colored "voice".
Please report any posting or retrieval problems to: After posting and clicking on return, the page will automaticly reload and display your entry. If not then, click on LastPost after the file reloads. Your question will be answered as soon as possible. Your input, answers and comments on questions to the Guru are welcome. -- guru Saturday, 08/01/98 00:00:00 EDT I'm alleging that the mystery blower is a Canedy-Otto because that's the legend that was cast, at enormous cost of ingenuity and labor, into the fan housing on mine. On the other side was cast Western Chief, etc. Perhaps it is a cleverly fabricated counterfeit. A Champion that somebody gussied up. A Buffalo in Chief's clothing. The real question is which way do real blacksmiths crank their blowers? Hmmm? My Canedy-Otto seems happier going counter-clockwise. It loves SAE 30, can't get enough of the stuff. So that makes me an enabler. Stop cranking for a while and and it gets sulky from gas pains and sets off a huge forge-rocking blast when you start again. That's where the dryer vent tubing comes in, see. Those aforementioned aluminum molecules have just enough give to absorb the shock, where plumbing pipe, or rainspout downspouting would probably pop, leaking toxic coal fumes into the shop, and perhaps a heavier concentration of particulate matter than one would prefer. Where is that damned fire extinguisher, anyway? john neary -- jneary at roadrunner.com Thursday, 07/01/99 04:39:43 GMT do you have any drawings/sketches for home built power hammers many thanks justin cole justin cole -- tim at racershardware.freeserve.co.uk Thursday, 07/01/99 11:37:03 GMT Justin, Go to the Power Hammer page here at Anvilfire. There are three or four different home built power hammers there. Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net Thursday, 07/01/99 13:04:40 GMT Justin: You can also get plans for a pretty nice air hammer from ABANA. Their website is at www.abana.org. Also, Larry Zoeller has done some modifications to it which you can see at http://users.ntr.net/~zman59/hammer.htm Phil -- rosche at dilbert.aticorp.org Thursday, 07/01/99 14:13:55 GMT Jock & Co., I am planning to do some forging at my home, mostly as a hobby but I have a cousin who wants me to make some "garden" gates for her. In the distant past I taught general high school shop and used a Johnson gas (propane) forge and had a great anvil ( around 300#) I am gathering equipment and would like some advice, Just bought a Lincoln TIG welder, and plan to make a coal forge, plans on the web seem straight forward, >I am in the Atlanta area, >Which ABANA chapter would you recommend to join? >Looking for an anvil, at reasonable cost, would like to find one over 250lbs. -- any recommendations? >most likely will want to build a power hammer, advantages/ disadvantages of mechanical vs. air? >Thanks for any info or help you can give Mike L -- mikelang at mindspring.com Thursday, 07/01/99 14:40:59 GMT Mike: There are two Georgia Chapters: ALEX BEALER BLACKSMITH ASSOCIATION (Dan Tull (770) 253-8396) and OCMULGEE BLACKSMITH GUILD (Ed Halligan (770) 251-7720) Phil -- rosche at dilbert.aticorp.org Thursday, 07/01/99 18:32:44 GMT This message is to all those who answered my question regarding my forge blower. I'm posting this not to show what an idiot I am (though I certainly feel like one now), but just to show my appreciation to everyone and to demonstrate that NO question is too stupid to ask. My special thanks to John Neary, however, who in his infinite wisdom demonstrated to me just how bad my mind is getting. He told me that my blower is made by Canedy-Otto, because that's what is cast into the blower housing of his, which is just like mine. I thought it curious that mine didn't say that, for surely I would have noticed. Well, just to make sure I hadn't somehow overlooked the obvious, I went into my basement where it is sitting, blower housing down. Imagine my shock, not at seeing that it said exactly what he said it should, but at the realization that my mind is gone. Should I just check myself into the mental facility now, or should I give it a little more time? (That was a rhetorical question. I'm not looking for opinions, this time. I think I know what the answers will be.) Anyway, next time someone says they hate to ask a stupid question, feel free to tell them this little story at my expense. I don't mind. This time next week I probably won't remember it happened anyway. Thanks to all. I love this place. Bob Rackers -- rackersr at one.net Thursday, 07/01/99 22:50:04 GMT This message is to all those who answered my question regarding my forge blower. I'm posting this not to show what an idiot I am (though I certainly feel like one now), but just to show my appreciation to everyone and to demonstrate that NO question is too stupid to ask. My special thanks to John Neary, however, who in his infinite wisdom demonstrated to me just how bad my mind is getting. He told me that my blower is made by Canedy-Otto, because that's what is cast into the blower housing of his, which is just like mine. I thought it curious that mine didn't say that, for surely I would have noticed. Well, just to make sure I hadn't somehow overlooked the obvious, I went into my basement where it is sitting, blower housing down. Imagine my shock, not at seeing that it said exactly what he said it should, but at the realization that my mind is gone. Should I just check myself into the mental facility now, or should I give it a little more time? (That was a rhetorical question. I'm not looking for opinions, this time. I think I know what the answers will be.) Anyway, next time someone says they hate to ask a stupid question, feel free to tell them this little story at my expense. I don't mind. This time next week I probably won't remember it happened anyway. Thanks to all. I love this place. Bob Rackers -- rackersr at one.net Thursday, 07/01/99 22:50:14 GMT Sorry for the double post. Don't know why that happened. Bob Rackers -- rackersr at one.net Friday, 07/02/99 02:56:32 GMT Made it to Calgary today. Long long trip. . . Beautiful city. Will report in the NEWS tomarrow night. George, Bolts of this type can be made by hand but have been made by machine for over 100 years. The square head is upset using a gripper die in the vise. The upset mass is forged square on removal from the die. Threads are made by cutting, filing or twisting -- guru Friday, 07/02/99 04:09:49 GMT I blush. john neary -- jneary at roadrunner.com Friday, 07/02/99 04:12:31 GMT guru i belive you have made a minor mistake. if done properly elektrolyticaly prossesed copper from blister copper is 99.995% (at least in the plant where i work). fire refining it will introduce impurities (ash sulfur....)or have i mised something? Kindly OErjan OErjan -- pokerbacken at angelfire.com Friday, 07/02/99 11:25:12 GMT IN the iron smelting process a "bloom" is the usable product of the smelt. Is the same name used when smelting non-ferrous metals or are there other words to describe the product of a smelt? I'm especially interested in copper and bronze (archeological references of Bronze Age smelting processes also appreciated). Stephen Deppen -- deppen at cs.utk.edu Friday, 07/02/99 15:37:07 GMT Handmade wood screws and lag screws are not as tapered or as pointy as store bought. A die similar to a thread cutting die is used to make the spiral part. A lathe can also be used. Nails are the most common form of attachment for hinges and hardware in the "old days" Hello back to Josh G. Why would anyone sale a perfectly good Nazel, especially when they have less than 10? John Careatti -- john.careatti at cskcorp.com Friday, 07/02/99 19:08:00 GMT Jock, I just acquired my great-grandfthers forge. I AM PSYCHED! There is something about using a 100 year old family heirloom! This means my Buffalo 30"x24" s/ 12" blower is for sale. The copper elevator dial has been received by the client and he loved it! It's up on my site under 'special projects'. Thanks for your help. The new baby is a Champion- patented June 1901, has a hood and is almost twice as big as the Buffalo. wooohooo!! smile grin and all that jaz!! Keep hammerin' Brian Rognholt odinforge.com Brian Rognholt -- brognholt at aol.com Friday, 07/02/99 23:33:08 GMT Brian, Elevator dial is beautiful! Way to go!! Wanna compare new babies? (grin) I just found and picked up a COMPLETE Buffalo forge! Forge table, slack tub, hood, Buffalo 200 blower with 14" fan. Valving so that the blower can blast the fire and/or force draft the chimney. Frozen up, but I've got LOTS of WD-40. Seventh heaven? You Bet!!!!!!! Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net Saturday, 07/03/99 01:04:30 GMT Dear guru, I have been practiceing blacksmithing for about 4 years now. my question is this. i am try ing to make a steel for making fires with to go with my buck skinning stuff. i try to use an old file but i could not get a spark off of it when i was done. i did not quench it. any help would be great! eric eric white -- bluesmountain at hotmail.com Saturday, 07/03/99 15:27:25 GMT Eric: To make sparks, the steel has to be hard. The harder the better. Suggest you quench your steel in room temp water or brine from the critical temp with no draw of the temper. grandpa -- darylmeier at usa.net Saturday, 07/03/99 16:21:22 GMT hello i am a researcher at the age of 16. I am writing a story and i would like to know how it feels to blacksmith. Is it really hot? Is there a lot of noise? how does your arm feel like after a day's work? The character that I am writing about is forging a sword, How many times would a good sword need to be folded? If these are question that can not be answered please write and tell me. I would appreciate it greatly. I thank you for your time and I wish luck for you in the future. Have a nice evening Neifirst -- Neifirst33 at aol.co Saturday, 07/03/99 22:00:30 GMT I am thinking about buying a Kick Ass Hammer and would like to know what size compressor I will need. My shop is at 5000feet altitude. Does this make a difference? Does anyone have any experience with this? Of course, I would like to get off as cheaply as possible without sacrificing performance. Thanks, Paul paulduval -- paulduval at hotmail.com Sunday, 07/04/99 01:44:29 GMT John, Thanks for the fillin on the screws. . . Been burning the candle at both ends in Calgary. Nazels were replaced by 500, 750 and 1500 pound Chambersburgs and Bements. MORE ON BOLTS: When most modern smiths need a limited number of "special" screws they often take a common lag bolt or screw and weld some mass to the head and forge it to the needed shape. Uri Hofi was demonstrating that today here at CanIRON. OErjan, just quoting one of my engineering handbooks. . . Yeah, I thought electrolytic processing should be better. Maybe it was a more primitive method than whats in use today. Then again the process flow chart was made by an artist not a process engineer. Stephen, Extracting the "bloom" in iron smelting is necessary to prevent all the metal from becoming liquid at the bottom of the furnace, absorbing large quantiteis of carbon and becoming cast iron. Other metals do not have this problem and are just tapped as liquid from the bottom of the furnace. KA-Hammer. Unlike the other of the "new" hammers it is not a self repeating machine. You can probably get away with a small compressor such as a 5HP. The altitude is not significant enough to make a big difference. As far as the operation of the machine the difference cancels out. Neifirst, To accurately write about something as technical as sword making you need to do some serious reading on the subject. Folding of metal is PART of the process of making laminated "Damascus" steels and the Japanese sword steels. It is metal processing not sword making. Swords can be made from homogenous modern steels OR the hand processesed variety. Japanese sword steels are folded in order to try to make an homegenous steel from wrought iron and high carbon steel. Laminated steels are only folded as many times as necessary. Where pattern development is important the folding may want to be minimized or not at all (See the link to grandpa Daryl Meier's web page). Is blacksmithing hot work? It depends on your local climate. In most moderate climates it IS hot work. But not generaly so. You DO work near the equivalent of a camp fire much of the day. The neat is HOT and big pieces radiate a LOT of heat. A one man shop without a power hammer is relatively quiet. The noise of pounding on the anvil is not nearly as much noise as other things. In modern shops tools such as power hammers and grinders are the most noticable. For a newby or apprentice their arm and wrist will get sore but a working blackmith rarely notices unless they have done some extra heavy work on a given day. -- guru Sunday, 07/04/99 03:41:56 GMT Well I would like to say Happy B-Day to our wonderfull country, the good ol' US of A. And to all of those who have put it all on the line in the name of freedom. All of you please be safe this weekend, as we can not afford to lose even a finger, let alone an eye or even a life. There are not so many of us blacksmith's yet... Ralph Ralph Douglass -- ralphd at jps.net Sunday, 07/04/99 05:59:30 GMT Hi Guru, I'm new to blacksmithing and need advice on forges. Some limitations on my choice are: 1) I live in the city suburbs and am surrounded by neighbors, most of whom are friends (for now). 2) Our city, Colorado Springs is at 6500 feet. I'm probably most interested in gas forges, but have past experience with coal and love the smell and feel. I'm most interested in architectural ironmaking. Thanks. seamus -- jon at thesniders.com Sunday, 07/04/99 14:55:00 GMT Howdy! I am the smith at New Fort Salem in Salem WV. My firepot just got a huge hole in the base. It is a rust bucket. I plan on replacing it. Can I buy new firepots or should I use an old brake drum. Wind Runner -- celtoi at hotmail.com Sunday, 07/04/99 21:55:16 GMT Wind Runner, Centaur Forge (see link on the links page) Carries new firepots. So does Laural Machine and Foundry. You can build a good forge out of a brake drum, but for your purposes, a commercial one might be better. Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net Sunday, 07/04/99 22:46:04 GMT Recently (in the last 3 or 4 months) you gave a great description of forging a triangle dinner bell. Could you please repeat the steps of the process again? Dale -- dbarr at clarityconnect.com Monday, 07/05/99 02:54:55 GMT How are dovetails usually used to hold dies What I really mean is what stops the die from sliding out Im putting the finishing touches on my power hammer (diff , engine block and shock absorbers) will post some pics real soon , its a wee bit different... shannell -- sjs at chariot.net.au Monday, 07/05/99 05:35:45 GMT Where can I buy the air controls unit to build an air hammer Thanks Bobby Bobby Neal -- nealbrusa at netscape.net Monday, 07/05/99 13:33:01 GMT I was wondering if someone could give me a brief rundown on the similarities and differences between forging iron and brass. Specifically, color to heat brass to, quenching requirements (if any), etc. I ask because I have some brass flat stock about 1/16" thick or so, and I need to bend it to about a 1/2" radius. I tried using a propane torch and hammering it, but it just work hardened and cracked. (Don't have a forge yet, but that's obviously on the priority list.) Thanks. Bob Rackers -- rackersr at one.net Monday, 07/05/99 14:40:03 GMT Shannell, Most older factory built hammers have dow pin holes in their sow block and ram. The holes are used to locate the dies and help stop them from moving. When I had a 50lb. Little Giant, there were no dow holes. I figured when we switched to Bradleys, there was no need to use the dow holes, even though the hammer had them. Well, that theory was soon proven wrong. I found out that the holes where there for a reason. No matter how hard I drove the wedges, the dies would loosen, until I drilled holes in my new dies and used 1/2" steel dow pins. It's not recommended to drive the wedges too tight. I have seen my share of hammers with broken rams or sow blocks because the wedges where driven too tight. Using dow pins is a great way to alleviate this type of problem. One other thing about wedges, they only need about 1% taper. Bruce R. Wallace -- Wallace Metal Work Monday, 07/05/99 15:15:10 GMT I am a baker by trade but an archeologist by heart. I have worked with the University of Wisconsin on some projects including an 1831 trading post that I discovered in 1987. My question reguards the many iron axheads that I've found. Some seem to have a better grade of steel on the bit edge. How was that joined togeter? What was the piece that they wrapped the iron around to leave the handle hole and how did they get the meld to stick. Also many of the 1830s-1860s axheads seem larger and heavier than ones you can buy today. Are these "felling" axes? Thankyou, Tom Fey Tom Fey -- tsfey at brodnet.com Monday, 07/05/99 15:39:22 GMT JUST GOT BACK! Spent a few hours this morning at Calgary's Olympic Park (beautiful) and the rest of the day in airplanes! 12 hours traveling by the clock. Left absolutely PERFECT weather in Canada (finaly) to come home to 90°F+ (33°C+) and saturation humidity (still). Had a great time and met a bunch of the Northwest crew, Diamag, Neil Gufsteson, Muldoon, Bob Miller and Morgan Hall among scores of others. Have hundreds of photos to post and thousands of words! Just give me a day or two. Its 1:00AM here so I'll have to catch up on Q&A sometime tomarrow. Bob, some brass cannot be forged due to lead content. Otherwise, heat to a very dim red (in a darkened shop) and quench in water. That's how you anneal most non-ferrous material. If it won't bend to that radius (or tighter) cold after that then its not going to bend. -- guru Tuesday, 07/06/99 04:51:56 GMT Welcome back Guru! I look forward to hearing about CanIron II. Ralph Ralph Douglass -- ralphd at jps.net Tuesday, 07/06/99 14:57:35 GMT Jock: Trivia: One thing our Canadian friends are fond of reminding me of, is that that part of Canada is the SOUTH-WEST (they're north-west is somewhere up in the arctic)! BTW, anyone call you a "yank", that should be something new for a Georgia boy! grant -- nakedanvil at forgetools.com Tuesday, 07/06/99 16:09:34 GMT Grant, Hmmmm hadn't thought about THAT. But is WAS snowing Friday night! And the sun didn't go down until well after 10PM. . . No yank HERE, but Dimag called a bunch of our Texan friends "Yankee" on the Pub one night and got a BUNCH of "Dem's fightin' words boy!" -- guru Tuesday, 07/06/99 20:58:04 GMT Kind of amazing how little north you have to go to see a real change in sunset. Two years ago Can-iron about 200 miles further north and at midnight you could still see clearly where the sun was at below the horizon! Lotta Canadians call all folks from the U.S. "yank". grant -- naked Tuesday, 07/06/99 21:23:19 GMT I am looking to open a new retail store with only metal,stone, and wood products for the home. I am having a hard time finding items that are sold wholesale. If you could help me out I would appreciate very much. thank you chuck crane C huck Crane -- Itssous at aol.com Wednesday, 07/07/99 13:22:49 GMT I am interested in knowing how to get started in the blacksmithing business. I am 40 years old and looking at a mid-career change. I am fairly good at metalworking including arc welding, oxyacteylene cutting and welding, and fusion welding/brazing, and metal fabrication. Are there any correspondence training programs for aspiring blacksmiths? What about apprenticing? Where would I get equipment? Is there any demand for old style iron forge work (coal fire, bellows) other than at interpretive places at historical sites? Thank you for your help. Tim Tim Savelle -- tsavelle at morgan.k12.ga.us Wednesday, 07/07/99 13:28:38 GMT Dear Guru: A couple of followup questions... I would like very much to be able to make a living doing this, but I see cash flow as a problem in the beginning. How long would you estimate that it would take to get this thing up and running and be able to generate say $3K-$4K per month? Also, much of the blacksmith work that I have seen, and also much of the things that I have read, imply that you have to have some artistic ability to be successful. This concerns me. I am very good at making functional things, but am "artistically challenged." How much of a hindrance would lack of artistic ability be for successful blacksmithing? Thanks again. Tim Tim Savelle -- tsavelle at morgan.k12.ga.us Wednesday, 07/07/99 14:42:47 GMT Chuck, There are dozens (hundreds) of smiths that sell wholesale. Just check our links page or the Blacksmith's webring. Besides the links we have there are links to pages of blacksmith links. Pretty soon you will have more suppliers than you know what to do with! Tim, There is a fair demand for blacksmith work but you will find that there are currently thousands of blacksmiths and the competition is very talented and productive. To make a living a blacksmithing you must be very good, be able to sell yourself AND your work and be productive. Productivity means MACHINERY (see our Power hammer Page). There are a variety of schools but THIS is the closest you will come to a corespondence school :) Check the ABANA page for schools (see our links page). You will find that two of the best are relatively near Georgia (in North Carolina). ABANA has a Journeyman program but it is not quite the same as the old time apprentice programs you are thinking of. Tools are readily available from suppliers like Kayne and Son or Centaur Forge. Artisticaly challanged. . . There IS work out there but it is production work no different than working in a factory. Hand made nails and hooks, door hardware, plant hangers and such all at a couple dollars each. With a good heavy power hammer there is jack-hammer bit sharpening at a couple dollars each too. A REALLY skilled blacksmith WITH a power hammer can produce $50-$80/hr. But you are talking about work that comes and goes by the TON. This requires not only your shop equipment but a good fork lift and a heavy truck. If you are under capitalized (IE no money to invest), it could take years to scrounge the equipment from used sources. Even at tail-gate sales equipment is not free. Going into blacksmithing is no different than going into the machine shop buisness. It takes a LOT of heavy and often expensive tools and machinery. Otherwise the work you produce will be the same class as that of imports from China, Mexico and elsewhere. Can you afford to compete on the same level as someone making less than $1/hr? Don't take this wrong. I LOVE blacksmithing. Its just very hard to get started and make a living. Check the ABANA page for your local chapter contact and see what those guys are doing. Go to some meetings and see what its all about. -- guru Wednesday, 07/07/99 23:46:08 GMT Tim There are lots of blacksmiths that don't do much artistic work. I'm proof of that, it's not that I can't do it but I found it doesn't all ways pay the bills. You could be waiting a long time and go broke if you had to depend on artistic work alone. I'm a blacksmith not an artis. I'm not above any work that makes a honest living. I enjoy the challenge of doing something different every day. I could be working on farm equipment one day and a church gate the next. The lack of artistic ability is not a hindrance to becoming a blacksmith. Being successful is a whole other issue. There's lots of other work being done then what's in ABANA's, Anvils Ring. I found out a long time ago. Don't worry about what the other guys doing and don't believe everything thing you see or read. If I was to believe everything, then I would believe the Clinton's were the best think to happen to our country. I'll be 40 this month and I started in this trade at age 13. Being a small one man shop, cash flow is still a problem. I would be happy to generate $3K-$4K every month. Some months are better then others and it could be easy to get discouraged. Some might find it easier then I did but I can't give up now, I'm just starting to have fun. Bruce R. Wallace -- Wallace Metal Work Thursday, 07/08/99 13:21:17 GMT Guru, I know nothing of metals, nor metalsmithing, blacksmithing or anything of the kind. Perhaps you can help. The company I work for has come across a rather large load of reject brass and pewter products. rejected meaning a few nicks, corosion marks, and what have you were found on these products (card/picture holders), nothing major but enough that they were not worthy of being sold. As it stands I have about 13 skids (around 600 lbs each) of these products sitting in my warehouse of no use to me, and taking up needed room. I'd like to sell it as scrap metal (i guess) to be remelted and "worked with" for whatever purpose. my question in short, is how would i go about selling this scrap metal? thank you very much for you time. season Season -- navygrrl at hotmail.com Thursday, 07/08/99 14:35:02 GMT Season, Almost any waste disposal company also recycle metals. Look in your local yellow pages. Scrap yards that appear to deal in iron and steel almost always deal in Copper, Brass and Aluminium too. Try to find at least two buyers so you can compare numbers. I don't know what the price of copper is now but iron/steel is at an all-time low. -- guru Thursday, 07/08/99 17:22:04 GMT I am a novice blacksmither interested in the works done by the mountain men of yesteryear. I am trying to perfect making a striker for flint and steel and was wondering what the best way was to cool the metal to get it to throw the most sparks. if you have any sugestions I thank you jim -- blueying00 Thursday, 07/08/99 21:51:07 GMT Jim, Flint and steel relies on HARD steel and good flint. Old files make good strikers. Ever notice that the striker wheel of a cigarette lighter is a round file? Heat the steel to a cherry red or until it becomes non-magnetic (test with a magnet). Quench in warm water (cold water may be too severe a quench. Then immediately polish the steel with sandpaper so that you can see the color and temper (reheat) until the parts that are not struck turn blue. Then quench again. Try not to temper the edge. The harder the striker the better it will spark. Please note that mild steel does not have enough carbon to be a good striker. Plain carbon tool steels are best. -- guru Thursday, 07/08/99 22:22:57 GMT Dear Sir: I recently purchased a graphite crucible by mail. To my surprise I discovered that the crucible I had purchased was intended for induction furnaces. Unfortunately, I only have oxy-propane available. Can you tell me what would happen if I used the graphite induction crucible in an oxy-propane furnace? ike -- ikemay at li.net Friday, 07/09/99 01:39:44 GMT Guru, In reference to Season and the price of copper, I recently paid a dollar a pound for bus bar. At least that's the rate here in MN. later all! Brian Rognholt -- brognholt at aol.com Friday, 07/09/99 19:13:13 GMT my son is a first year "rookie" to blacksmithing. we are in the next day or two going to make a trip to colorado, utah, new mexico, arizona, etc. would anyone be able to tell us where we might purchase a 'load' of coal for his forge and where would be the best place to get it. we will be in loma, colorado (a long way from Texas) and don't know exactly how or where to go about pulling this feat off. thanks in advance for any help or suggestions you may offer. sandie -- lsbjdavis at aol.com Friday, 07/09/99 21:51:00 GMT in asking how to locate coal, i failed to ask if anyone knows where my som might run across a trip hammer. thanks again! sandie -- lsbjdavis at aol.com Friday, 07/09/99 21:53:49 GMT Sandie, Buying coal from an unknown source is risky. There is a lot of really BAD coal out there. More so in the Western U.S. than in the East. Never purchase a large quantity unless it is highly recommended by a local smith. Purchase 100 pounds or so and try it out before buying more. Check the Coal Scuttle for coal suppliers. In many locations coal is difficult to get or expensive to ship. Groups of blacksmiths often pool their resources and buy in bulk (a rail car load). Join your local ABANA chapter and find out what's up! There are four ways to purchase "trip" hammers. New, used, junk and from an individual. See our Power hammer Page for dealers of new and rebuilt hammers. Sid Sudemeier's rebuilt Little Giants are well worth the money. Steve Kayne & Son sell a very nice air hammer. Centaur Forge sells Kuhns which are the top of line in smaller hammers. Buying junk OR from and individual requires you to have your wits about you and to be a pretty sharp mechanic. Power hammers tend to get abused beyond belief and repairs made by the WORST "mechanics" or should I say "non-mechanics". To make matter worse ALL of the mechanical hammers have been out of production for many years. There is no such thing as parts for most of them. You make your own or pay someone that can. In any case, if you are going to own ANY of these machines you should be fairly mechanicaly inclined. Most wrecked hammers get that way because of lack of oil or the simple tightening of a bolt. Many modern blacksmiths tend to be artists more than mechanics and their machinery shows it. -- guru Saturday, 07/10/99 01:46:28 GMT Ike, I don't know what would be different unless it is the shape and the induction crucible isn't designed to be picked up with crucible tongs??? Induction may require a stronger crucible since the metal heats and the crucible doesn't (until AFTER the metal). Your oxygen enriched furnace will run about 2,700°F hotter than a regular furnace. Thats 300°F higher than the temperature used to manufacture the crucible and 1000°F higher than its max hot strength temperature. However, the graphite SHOULD hold up. It doesn't "sublime" (evaporate) until quite a bit hotter than your furnace will go. -- guru Saturday, 07/10/99 02:15:28 GMT thank you so much for the info on coal/trip hammers. not only is my son a 'rookie' blacksmith, i am a 'rookie' 'puter operator. so i was delighted to know i got through to you and my question must not have seemed so silly to you. at least your answer made me feel it wasn't. thanks again!i don't think we'll go looking for coal mines. sandie -- lsbjdavis at aol.com Saturday, 07/10/99 03:31:07 GMT Hi Jock! Rick sent me here and told me to give you his best! I'm looking to find some cheap way to bend small (up to 1/2" or so) rod to do some hobby-type ornamental iron. I guess I'm a g.o.d. (grizzled old dog) at age 66, but only modest experience. I have an oxy/acet welding outfit but no forge at present so I'm looking at mostly cold bending. Probably a Hossfeld or Di-Acro would be out of my price range even if used, although I guess I could get lucky and find something inexpensive. Any thoughts will be appreciated! My only "bending jig" right now is my hammer and the open jaws of my vice, which works but my bends are not the sweetly smooth curves I'd like. John -- jfmoemd at aol.com Saturday, 07/10/99 12:28:09 GMT Well, I just returned from an auction. A 200# Trenton went for $330, and I owuld have had to pay the same for the 170# Arm and Hammer, so unfortunately, I passed on it. I'm having minor regrets, so if anyone wants to tell me I did the right thing, please don't hesitate. However, one reason is that I ran into a gentleman I know who said he had an anvil of between 150 and 160 pounds (not that he didn't know, but I forgot the exact weight. I think he said 156 pounds.). Anyhow, he said it was a Mouse Hole anvil. I understand they were made in England, but that's all I know. Could I get some feedback about them please? Are they wrought or cast, are they among the better made anvils, whatever anyone can tell me would be greatly appreciated. 150-175 pounds is really all I need, as I plan to use it mostly for modifying or repairing woodworking tools (chisels and other cutting blades). I'd like to hear the everything anyone can tell me. Feel free to email me. Also, are they as well liked as Peter Wright and/or Hay Budden? Thanks much. Bob Rackers -- rackersr at one.net Saturday, 07/10/99 17:53:01 GMT Bob, I got your email first, so I answered your questions there. But to re-cap for the rest of the folks, I think you were correct to pass up the Arm and Hammer at that price. Many folks prefer the mouse holes over any other anvil. I like them, Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net Saturday, 07/10/99 19:06:59 GMT John, Welcome to Anvilfire! Harbor Freight Tools sells a Taiwan knock off of the Hossfield for less than $200 that most folks seem to think works well. I've never used one. If you don't get their catalog, call 1-800-423-2567, and theyl'll send you one. Course, once you get on their mailing list, you'll never get off! (grin) Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net Saturday, 07/10/99 19:10:10 GMT John, There are bends and there are bends. To make sharp crisp bends for triangle in 1/2" round stock I always heated with a torch and free bent with tongs while the work was held in the vise. For larger radius bends you can make a bending wrench that fits over a pin the size of the bend. I often make these with two fingers that fit above and below the piece to be bent. If the fingers are such that the wrench can be put on and taken off from one side while the part is still on the bending mandrel (pin) it is handy and keeps the wrench from "camming" out. For a variety of benders see our article on the 21st Century Page. Thank Rick for sending you and say hi! We spent the day with the Central Virginia Blacksmiths Guild at the Washington National Cathedral in Washington, DC on a Ironwork tour. The guide Connie Ewy was a very knowledgable lady who has met a number of the smiths that have worked on the Cathedral. Josh Greenwood was with us and shared stories about the works of Samuel Yelin and Tom Bredlow as well as his own. I took over 100 pictures and would have taken more if the lighting had been better. If you take this tour be sure to take a flashlight! I've got such a backlog of "news" photos that I won't promise to post these very soon but they WILL get posted. -- guru Sunday, 07/11/99 03:22:14 GMT Guru Want are the dies in powerhammers made of. The ones in my Kerrihard need to be built up. They don't meet just right by that I mean the top die is worn to the point that only the back of the die is hitting the bottom die and the bottom die looks like it is worn down and to flat. Hey Bill I forge my first leaf after watching the demo it looks ok. It was the first thing that I have forge under the power hammer. Thanks for the great site Bobby Bobby -- bbneal at bellsouth.net Sunday, 07/11/99 15:43:44 GMT Bobby, Power hammer dies are made of a variety of steels. Many are plain high carbon steel like SAE-1095 while others are alloys such as SAE-4160. Most are quite hard (sometimes too hard). Proper conditioning of the steel during forging and careful heattreatment is quite important. Severly worn dies should be replaced or ground rather than built up. All dies SHOULD have radiused edges to prevent chipping and spalling but also to prevent notching or cutting the work. The correct curvature is actually an oval but is defined as compound radi. The best way to regrind dies is on a surface grinder. However this is beyond most smiths and is expensive to have done by an outside shop. BUT, it IS cheaper than having new dies made by the same shop. You can also regrind them with a hand grinder. Check your progres with a straight edge and a square. Grind them flat with sharp crisp edges to start. Put them back in the hammer and check the face to face fit and correct as necesary. Then radius the edges. If you prefer compound or "universal" dies (half flat, half rounded) do the grinding for that last. On the radiused side leave a slight flat level with the flat side. Check to be sure the dies are not too short causing parts of the toggle linkage to colide with the guides. If the dies are overly short then shim up. Use either precision ground flat stock or clean sheet metal. A single thick shim is better than a stack. The fit in the dovetail of most hammers allows room for some shimming. -- guru Sunday, 07/11/99 16:14:27 GMT PawPaw Just a quick note about the Hossfield knock off. It is the same one sold in Canada at Princess Auto normally for something like $179 Can....(I think it's on sale now for about $129...going on memory here) So anyone south of the border, but near it may want to consider crossing over as after you buy it in US $ that makes it about 85-$90 US.... Norm Larson also carries a book on making your own for fairly cheap. So how come the guru gets to do all this globe trotting & you "colored voice" voice types have to stay behind.... You should have tried sneaking into the suitcase for Caniron....:) Bob -- robert_miller at mindlink.bc.ca Sunday, 07/11/99 17:24:11 GMT Bob, Good point. I knew about Princess Auto, but forgot to mention them. I was invited to CanIron, but had a previous commitment. I woul have loved to be there. Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net Sunday, 07/11/99 17:46:58 GMT Bob, One thing we ARE NOT at anvilfire is cheap! I certainly did invite Jim to come and video the demos at CanIron II. I'd also invited Kiwi but he had some entanglements he couldn't get out of. . . At the Asheville ABANA conference we paid for a whole crew of folks including a reporter/assistant and a demonstrator for the EC-JYH. Jim traveled with me to Spring Fling and the Southeast Conference and eventually we will have on-line video from those events! We also plan on being at the next AFC conference at Tannehill. The ABANA 2000 conference is going to be a BLAST and will probably do the same to our budget! Anything else we do between now and then will have to be on an expense paid basis unless its in my backyard. :( -- guru Sunday, 07/11/99 18:48:03 GMT Guru, I really don't think Bob was implying that Anvilfire was cheap, I think he was teasing. Note the grin after the word Caniron in his message. (GRIN) Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net Sunday, 07/11/99 18:58:18 GMT if I am makeing my own hammer head, do i need to heat treat it or temper it? What is the correct process? Thank you. Andrew Jump -- ajump81895 at aol.com Sunday, 07/11/99 19:51:03 GMT Andrew, Hammers are quite hard. Yes, it needs to be heattreated. Tempering is only ONE step in the process of heattreating as follows:
Tempering is also dependant on the type of steel you are using. You can "run" the colors when tempering plain carbon steels but alloy steels produce temper colors diferently than carbon steels. I got a nice chart from Frank Turley that was originaly published by CoSira (I think). It had types of tools and tempering temperatures along with the temper colors. I'll go look for it now since I planned on putting it on anvilfire. . . -- guru Sunday, 07/11/99 20:20:00 GMT <Ralfy98 at aol.com> This email address does not work. -- guru Sunday, 07/11/99 20:33:48 GMT Found power hammer: I'm sure this is a Bradley Upright Strap ( page 228; Freund ). Condition: I can only see the top of the body, the rest is in a pit - but I can see the anvil. It looks like it's all there. Physically, this is more than I can handle. I'd love to see someone get this hammer before it's scrapped - which is pending. This hammer will require some backhoe work to free it from the pit. It's in Texas. Let me know, Vance Vance Burns -- Vance.Burns at Chase.com Sunday, 07/11/99 23:00:56 GMT Found power hammer: I'm sure this is a Bradley Upright Strap ( page 228; Freund ). Condition: I can only see the top of the body, the rest is in a pit - but I can see the anvil. It looks like it's all there. Physically, this is more than I can handle. I'd love to see someone get this hammer before it's scrapped - which is pending. This hammer will require some backhoe work to free it from the pit. It's in Texas. Let me know, Vance Vance Burns -- Vance.Burns at Chase.com Sunday, 07/11/99 23:01:12 GMT On an anvil there is a round hole and a square hole. what are these used for? rod Sunday, 07/11/99 23:38:40 GMT Rod, The square hole is called the Hardy hole. It's used to hold various tools for shaping hot metal. It's square to keep the tools from turning. The round hole is called the Pritchel hole. It's used by blacksmiths primarily as a place to punch holes in hot stock. Farriers use it for other purposes, but I don't know what they are. Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net Monday, 07/12/99 00:05:42 GMT I would like to build a belt grinder for knife blades,,,any drawings or place to get parts? Rich Hale -- rjhale at ix.netcom.com Monday, 07/12/99 00:55:01 GMT Guru: I found this site a while back, and am getting really interested in smithing. I have about thirty years experience in machine maintenance. My question: would a piece of clay flue liner work as the housing of a propane forge? The liners I have are about 7" square, and 24" long. Also, would it need to be insulated? Dean -- dpwhatever at webtv.net Monday, 07/12/99 01:28:52 GMT Dean, clay flue liners are not rated at nearly the temperatures reached in a forge. 1,800 degrees F (I think). Forges run around 3,000 F. If the piece were a refractory designed for foundry work it might hold up. . . Also check the ratings on "fire" brick. Brick made for domestic use in chimineys is rated MUCH lower than foundry grade refractory brick. Ocassionaly your local building material supplier will have foundry grade materials and be selling it for regular fire brick. Although a lot of smiths build forges using ceramic insulating "wool" as a liner, a hard refractory liner works best. It is more durable and retains more heat. It helps keep you AND your shop cooler while making your forge more efficient if you insulate the hard refractory with the wool products (such as Kaowool). However, it is not necessary. -- guru Monday, 07/12/99 03:00:59 GMT Just posted pages 7-10 to the CanIRON II edition of the NEWS! Includes some friends and the start of the section on Frank Turley. -- guru Monday, 07/12/99 03:18:30 GMT Guru and helpers...I have awuired a 25lb Little Giant (serial #3383) built in 1924. I have reworked the treadle blot hole, fixed the broken treadle spring so the shifting fork has enough pressure on it to disengage the friction pulley, but whem I turn on the motor and it turns ideling, the crankplate and ram slowly begin to cycle. Within a few seconds the ram is hitting (I have a wooden hood over the lower die to avoid damage)The power hammer book advises lubrication. Does that mean oil/grease on the inside of the friction pully where it contacts the clutch material? I know this could be related to several other problems but since I reworked the treadle, spring and shift fork, it seems to be near working order. Any advice would be appreciated. Randall Guess -- rdguess at bellsouth.net Monday, 07/12/99 12:53:15 GMT I have recently acquired a large drill press made by Champion Blower and Forge (of Lancaster, PA) and was wanting to find some information\history on this piece. My goal is to restore and use this press in my workshop. It belonged to The Farth Iron Co. of Kansas City, MO. I have enclosed a few of the numbers that I found on the press: B2064, D2020, and 204B. It looks to have originally been ran of of an assembly line with a clutch, etc. At some time in the past, someone hooked up an electric motor to it. Any links, information, and especially any drawings or history would be appreciated. Lorin -- oka1las at ups.com Monday, 07/12/99 14:35:48 GMT I have recently acquired a large drill press made by Champion Blower and Forge (of Lancaster, PA) and was wanting to find some information\history on this piece. My goal is to restore and use this press in my workshop. It belonged to The Farth Iron Co. of Kansas City, MO. I have enclosed a few of the numbers that I found on the press: B2064, D2020, and 204B. It looks to have originally been ran of of an assembly line with a clutch, etc. At some time in the past, someone hooked up an electric motor to it. Any links, information, and especially any drawings or history would be appreciated. Lorin -- oka1las at ups.com Monday, 07/12/99 14:36:12 GMT Guru: Definately wasn't implying Anvilfire was cheap...Just having some fun with paw-paw. Besides I need to stay on your good side after having discussions with the my wife about absconding with her floor space in the new shop. I am not moved in yet & am finding more equipment then room.....Virginia ought to be far enough away...:) Rich re the knife belt grinder...You can buy the contact (rubber) wheels with the high speed bearings inside but they are going to cost. Many of the knife makers in Alberta (recent site of Caniron) were using a home made version of a square wheel grinder. A couple of suggestions on wheels (if you don't want to machine alum. ones for your self) ....in going through surplus places fellows had found suitable 2" wide wheels & pressed the bearings out & replaced with high speed ones, one fellow was using a wheel off a pallet jack. (Correct size, rubber coated & had a high speed bearing in it). Otherwize their is a link on the web for one but many of the other home made designs use a 4 speed step-upéstep-down pulley system to varry your speed. Or if you don't have access to machining you can cheat like I did & buy a commercial frame & add your own motor. It helped save a chunk. Check with grandpa, I am sure he has seen his share of home-made designs. Bob -- robert_miller at mindlink.bc.ca Monday, 07/12/99 16:22:56 GMT LITTLE GIANT CLUTCH (Randall): Yes, oil the heck out of it! Even the later models with wood friction blocks need oil. Use 20w20 or SAE30 or whatever you are oiling the machine with. Also be sure the lubrication line from the back of the shaft to the clutch idler bearing is clear and kept greased. The bearings on the early center clutches can wear but will still work with a hugh amount of clearance. -- guru Monday, 07/12/99 20:33:34 GMT CHAMPION DRILL (Lorin): If you are talking about a large floor model drill (probably a 20" from all the 20's in the numbers), this is a very common standard machine. Dozens (maybe hundreds) of companies made the same machine with very minor differences. I have four that are all the same pattern and parts are probably interchangable. One is a Champion, one a Royersford Excelsior, my first a Joseph T. Ryerson and Sons (yep, the steel people), and the last I don't think is marked. The only thing different on the Champion is the fancy script lettering where they put their name. All these machines have back-gears for slow speed (almost ALWAYS broken) and feed the spindle through a crown drive (right angle reduction gears), A ratchet lever feed and short handwheel feed plus power down feed with a trigger release. Some come with a captive crank for the table others require a wrench (or have had the crank removed and lost). The spindle takes a #4 Morse Taper. The biggest variable is the table. Some have T-slots, others have holes while a few have slots and holes. These are GREAT machines. They will drill a 1" (25mm) hole as fast as you can hot punch it but are sensitive enough to bury a 3/16" (5mm) drill. A modern equivalent would cost over $4,000 US. This size machine (20") uses a 1-1/2" (38mm) flat leather belt. It can transmit no more than 1-1/2 HP so that is all the HP you need. Centaur Forge and Norm Larson Books have a reprint of the Champion Catalog that should have carried the drill. These machines were made with few changes from the 1880's to the 1950's. They came in smaller and larger sizes but 20" was the most common. I wish I could say that all of mine were running. -- guru Monday, 07/12/99 21:14:23 GMT Bob, Hmmmmm. . . I hear the homeless smith's mantra now, "Will trade work for storage space, will trade. . .". You've got: Gives "AA" a new meaning ;o) -- guru Monday, 07/12/99 21:24:08 GMT Randall, Has your LG been sitting awhile out of service or outside. Does your hammer have a center clutch and a grease fitting going into the back of the main shaft? Bruce R. Wallace -- Wallace Metal Work Monday, 07/12/99 21:31:47 GMT Guru You might very well be right...but something you predicted several years ago..."Don't worry about finding them, after the first one they will come out of the woodwork". Now that was in reference to mechanical hammers, I beleive....& how right you were. You just forgot to warn me about all the space I would need for these "great deals" ...but things have been getting better....I did pass one hammer up. Bob -- robert_miller at mindlink.bc.ca Monday, 07/12/99 21:58:22 GMT Well. . . A few years ago I had four (4) Little Giants. Two 50's, a 100 and a 250. I sold them all - but I still don't have any space in the shop and I haven't even moved in the 350 Bement that I traded the 250 LG for! Space is relative, ask Einstien. I've never been much of a "finder" myself. But if Bruce Wallace or Josh Greenwood rolled in a dung heap they'd get up brushing off the anvils that had stuck to them! Of course, they actually WORK at it. When Josh drives through any small town he will stop at some unlikely little store of service station (yeah there are still a few left in rural America) strike up a conversation and ask if anyone remembers any local blacksmith shops or knows any blacksmiths. Sometimes the "pumping" of information may take hours. Then he will follow the slimest of leads and pump again. I've never known him to come home empty handed (when he had a little money) or at least have a couple positive prospects. Most of the time the limit is how much he can carry. . . -- guru Monday, 07/12/99 23:17:46 GMT aquisititus, The need to collect everything associated with a particular field of intrest. Most commonly afflicts tool collectors and blacksmiths, Word by Josh Greenwood, who recognized the symptoms in himself. Pronunciation please? I think I've got an advanced case, and Sheri agrees with me. (grin) Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net Tuesday, 07/13/99 00:11:39 GMT Bruce..The fellow I bought it from told me that he used it but how often I dont know. When I got the wiring hooked up and turned on the switch, it started cycling and hit die to die a few times before I could turn off the power. It hasnt been outside from the looks of it and there are zerk fittings in all of the joints and one at the rear bearings. Center clutch..I think so. The shifting fork is attached to the shift collar pins and moves forward to engage the friction pully with the clutch material, which looks like woven asbestos. There is plenty of greese at the front and rear bearings. The young man was also running the 2 HP motor without a start capacitor, which I have rectified (no pun intended). Randall Guess -- rdguess at bellsouth.net Tuesday, 07/13/99 00:44:11 GMT Jim, aquis as in aquisition or to aquire. it as in it?? titus as in an ailment such as in tonsilitus Randall, a center clutch machine has the clutch between the two frame bearings. Later models had the clutch behind the rear bearing. I'm not sure the fabric is original. -- guru Tuesday, 07/13/99 01:11:04 GMT Cripes! Another Newbie!! I got to admit that I'm about as smart as a bag of hammers and just about as good looking too. I've read the previous posts and didn't find the answers I was looking for so I'll ask them if that's OK with y'all? I'm thinking about using a 45 gallon drum cut end to end set in an angle iron frame with two duck's nests set about 18 inches apart as the base for the forge (want the flexibility to run hotter ovens for larger work). What kind of mud/clay liner should I consider for the inside (and how thick to keep from burning a hole in the bottom)? I was considering a three board bellows (yes, I know the size formulas). Will this be sufficient to run both duck's nests or should I consider building two bellows to be run in tandum? My intent is to pay attention the mistakes of my elders, try not to duplicate too many of them and maybe make some knives and swords (down the road) that won't be thrown awy in disgust by a critical user. I've been a Gunsmith for the last 20 years and someday I'm actually going to learn enough about my trade to do some excellent work. In the mean time I turn out some interesting stuff but this little tickle in the back of my ugly head says that I ought to be spending some time in a dark place with a hot fire and strong arm... Any comments or suggestions would be welcome. Dileas Gu Brath Dav Langstroth -- altnlang at bconnex.net Tuesday, 07/13/99 03:53:36 GMT Cripes! Another Newbie!! I got to admit that I'm about as smart as a bag of hammers and just about as good looking too. I've read the previous posts and didn't find the answers I was looking for so I'll ask them if that's OK with y'all? I'm thinking about using a 45 gallon drum cut end to end set in an angle iron frame with two duck's nests set about 18 inches apart as the base for the forge (want the flexibility to run hotter ovens for larger work). What kind of mud/clay liner should I consider for the inside (and how thick to keep from burning a hole in the bottom)? I was considering a three board bellows (yes, I know the size formulas). Will this be sufficient to run both duck's nests or should I consider building two bellows to be run in tandum? My intent is to pay attention the mistakes of my elders, try not to duplicate too many of them and maybe make some knives and swords (down the road) that won't be thrown awy in disgust by a critical user. I've been a Gunsmith for the last 20 years and someday I'm actually going to learn enough about my trade to do some excellent work. In the mean time I turn out some interesting stuff but this little tickle in the back of my ugly head says that I ought to be spending some time in a dark place with a hot fire and strong arm... Any comments or suggestions would be welcome. Dileas Gu Brath Dav Langstroth -- altnlang at bconnex.net Tuesday, 07/13/99 03:57:49 GMT Guru and Bruce..Yes it is a center clutch on the LG. I oiled the inside of the friction pully and clutch pad late last night. Free handed the pully around a few times and turned on the motor. It did idle better from startup but after I engaged the clutch and released, the crankplate and ram cycled at slow speed and hit the 2x4 cushion lightly. I will continue the grease and oil today. I think running it might be whats needed to help the idle problem. Thanks for the info and advice. Randall Guess -- rdguess at bellsouth.net Tuesday, 07/13/99 11:41:28 GMT Actually, 'itis' refers to inflammation when added as a suffix to any number of combining forms in medical terminology. I had 2 years of the stuff in school and have done it every day for over 11 years. uffda. hot in Rochester. peace yall! Brian Rognholt -- BROGNHOLT at ODINFORGE.COM Tuesday, 07/13/99 13:07:20 GMT Brian, I guess the "itis" is the inflamation of your junk pile (RE: aquisititus). -- guru Tuesday, 07/13/99 17:39:36 GMT It's kind of hard to offer a fix without seeing your hammer or knowing its history. On early center clutch Little Giant's, there is a bronze or babbit-bearing hub where the center pulley meets the main shaft. The grease zerk on the back of the main shaft feeds this bearing surface. If too much grease is fed to the center-bearing hub, the hammer will hit when turned on. If the hammer was over-used, neglected, and not greased or oiled enough over it's life, it could be worn and causing the same problem. Check it without the motor running and the treadle disengaged and see if the pulley moves independent of the main shaft when turned by hand. Check the main shaft babbits for wear or replacement. If the babbit seems to be worn, check under the caps for shims. If the main shaft babbits are worn, it will cause the hub to be out of center and grab as you described. At best, the hammer has been over-greased. If its been sitting not used, the grease could have hardened and be cause for the hub to stick. If either is the case, a good degreasing in this area could solve your problem. If not, then further investigation needs to be done to find out what's wrong. My investigation would start with the hub area first. Little Giant made so many changes it's hard to keep track. I had a 50Lber. that had a woven asbestos clutch. Matter of fact, that hammer had the same problem when I bought it. Turned out the cause was at the center hub. The hammer needed to be taken apart and fixed with new babbit. Please don't take your hammer apart because of what I say. Just trying to offer what could be wrong. Further investigate before you do anything drastic, it could be an easy fix, but it sounds to me you fixed the easy, obvious parts already. Bruce R. Wallace -- Wallace Metal Work Tuesday, 07/13/99 17:47:15 GMT amen. brian rognholt -- brognholt at odinforge.com Tuesday, 07/13/99 19:09:11 GMT DOUBLE BARREL FORGE (Dav): A split oil barrel is a too deep for a coal forge and little too deep for charcoal too. Commercial firepots (duck's nests) take the heat without lining and homemade ones hold up well if of 3/8" (10mm) steel plate. You only need about 4" (100mm) above the top of the firepot to give a proper coal bed and prevent excess from spilling out on the floor. BELLOWS: I used a large one for years. Much prefer it to other methods, however it is about all one man can do to keep his fire going and work too. A double fire pot is a good idea (put them as close together as possible) but they will require a LOT of air. You would be much happier with a rheostat controled blower (unless you have an endentured servant to pump the bellows). You might consider using BOTH at the same time. The electric blower would keep the fire going at a minimum (it tends to cool too much between heats when using a bellows). The bellows would give you an extra boost when you need it and that extra control that make forge welding easier. NOTE: I said the double firepot is a good idea, but not for what. They are great for long heats for architectual work or really heavy work. Sword smiths work short sections because a long heat would make a piece that was too limp to work. I'm not sure what they use for heattreatment but a coal forge is going to be hard to get a long even heat with. LITTLE GIANT CLUTCH: Randall, I just looked at some pictures of a Little Giant rebuilt by Sid Sudemeier. It had the cloth (probably cotton belting) lining on the cone. I've seen them without but it may have just been missing. . . Bruce is right about not taking it apart too soon. Bad lubrication or lack of lubrication can be a lot of the problem. Oil the thing with lots of WD-40 to loosen things up and then come back with 20w20. Often running a machine is the best thing you can do for it. -- guru Wednesday, 07/14/99 00:31:02 GMT Can you help me in locating a local Blacksmith in the Charleston, SC area where I can get help in learning?? Thanks Roger -- rognolter at aol.com Wednesday, 07/14/99 01:48:58 GMT Guru and Bruce..First, let me say I cant thank you enough for your attention and advice with my problem. I ran the LG at idle today after lots of oil the night befor. As long as I held on to one of the arms, it didnt cycle. I let it run for several minutes. It sort of looks like it may have set for a while without being run. I heated up sone coil spring I had previously straightened and applied the hammer. WOW was all I could say. It is hitting about 4 times a second or a fraction less. The 5/8" rod became a rough bar in just a few minutes. Releasing the treadle, it still cycles the ram, but at a much slower, softer rate. It does run fairly smooth. The babbit is probably old and worn and there are shims in place, but I think the problem is minor and may be the dried, hard grease inside the friction pulley. I will work on degreasing and regreasing. I have the Kern book and have been reading and rereading but I heed your advice to not take it apart just yet. It is usable, just not convenient to cut off the switch to turn the metal over. Thanks again for the help and encouragement. Randall Guess -- rdguess at bellsouth.net Wednesday, 07/14/99 01:53:55 GMT I just removed the Architecture WebRing (ID = mansion) from the Nexus. It is NOT being maintained. The dozens that have signed up for it since the beginning of the year are giving it free advertising without benifit of any return. I wrote WebRing about this several months ago and nothing happened. Appearently the person that set it up doesn't check their email. . If your site has been in "the cache" for a long while you should probably remove it from your site too. -- guru Wednesday, 07/14/99 01:57:46 GMT MY new power hammer pics its not finished but take a look http://www.chariot.net.au/~sjs/hammer.html shannell -- sjs at chariot.net.au Wednesday, 07/14/99 03:08:17 GMT Shannell, GREAT! The EC-JYH hit real soft at 40 pounds ram. We bumped it up to 65. A flat leaf spring between the top of your two shocks will add some snap (actually stroke-overtravel) and increase the hitting power. I will post a drawing. . . The advantage of the shocks is still the automatic height compensation. Those are HUGE ones on your machine so it may need a LOT more ram mass. Perhaps the biggest advantage of the do-it-your-self hammer is that it is YOURS. Fix it, change it, make something else out of it, its no big deal because its yours to do as you will. Another word on soft blows. They are great for under the hammer chasing and using hand held tooling. Its also a good way to learn to use a power hammer without getting hurt. The EC-JYH was not a great forging machine but it could still put points on a LOT more 1" bar than I could! -- guru Wednesday, 07/14/99 04:26:47 GMT Ok, scrap the 45 gallon drum idea. Scrap the rheostat blower idea too (no power) and yes, I have an indentured slave (no the South did not rise agin). Where do I find firepot design ideas? I read a couple of books on the subject but when it gets right down to it, they are vague and elusive about the particulars. I'm also looking for info on various bellows designs. Any direction that I should take? Iam of limited financial means (who isn't) and when it comes to spending a dollar (even if it is only worth .65 of a real dollar) I'm tighter than...(you can get the drift). Thank you for your quick and accurate responses. Dav Dav Langstroth -- altnlang at bconnex.net Wednesday, 07/14/99 10:54:11 GMT FIREPOT: Dav, The Twyeer design for the brake drum forge is very close to what the new commercial forges use. Attach same to "pot" in the shape of an upside down truncated pyramid with a flange. (For those of you that a geometrically impared "truncated" means "cut off".) Approximate dimensions as follows: Bottom - 5" x 5" (125 x 125mm) Top Opening - 11" x 11" (275 x 275mm) Depth - 4" (100mm) Resulting side plates (the slope is a 3-4-5 triangle) - 11" x 5" (275 x 250mm) with 3" (75mm) wide triangles cut from the short edges. The thickness can be as little as 1/8" (3mm) to 5/8" (16mm). 1/2" (13mm) plate works well. Make a flange out of 1/2" (13mm) x 1" or 1.5" (25 or 40mm) wide bar stock. You could also torch pieces from the same plate that you make the rest od the pot from. Weld it all together and drill a couple mounting holes in the flange and bottom (to fit the pipe flange) and you've got a firepot that will last your life time. The weakest link in this assembly is the pipe nipples in the twyeer. They tend to rust out. Use heavy ones (schedule 120) if you can find or afford them. -- guru Wednesday, 07/14/99 12:03:29 GMT i have been making copper fountains and need to learn how to patina and color copper. i have limited experience and would appreciate any knowledge you may have. thank you, susan susan -- sueart at webtv.net Wednesday, 07/14/99 13:00:01 GMT When I was at the ABANA Conference last summer, a blacksmith from the New England area told me that a particular spar varnish was an excellent finish for exterior ironwork. I have the word 'Pentathol' written down as my only note of the conversation. Does anyone know the product to which he was referring? Thanks. Julie Julie Pickett -- jpickett at newlifechapel.org Wednesday, 07/14/99 17:14:36 GMT Hey there smithers- This may get a little lengthy so I ask that you bear wtih me. I am 20 years old am just begninnign to experiment with forging, old-school style. I live in Collegeville, MN on Saint John's University campus. There is also a monastary here and the Monks have given me the use of an olde, concrete, underground cellar to use as a workshop. In the top of this cellar is a 3 1/2 by 3 1/2 foot hole that is open to the air. There is one door on the North side of the cellar. I have recently obtained an old forge that belonged to my grandfather's grandfather which makes me a fifth generation Workman to use it. I have a few hammers, an anvil and use coal that that is swept into the road ditch whenever the university cleans its lot. I have positioned the forge under the hole in the ceiling to let the smoke out. However, I have been having trouble with backdraft and smoke rolling back into the cellar. I was hoping someone would have a plan for a chimney so something that I could build so that I don't have this problem. If this isn't enought info. please e-mail me I will try to be helpful. Thanks. John -- jrworkman at csbsju.edu Wednesday, 07/14/99 17:33:51 GMT I'm just starting out in marble carving and I'm looking for information on re-tempering my chisels after I grind them - if they ever break off. Is there a web site (yours?) that discusses this, or a book? Either would be fine. Steve -- steve.syverson at bull.com Wednesday, 07/14/99 18:03:05 GMT I'm with a re-enactment group that focuses on the 12th - 15th century. We would like to learn armor making but are in need of an anvil. Could you be so kind as to point me into a direction that would help us procure one. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, David Phillips David Phillips -- Rosen at pronetisp.net Wednesday, 07/14/99 18:08:52 GMT Susan, Copper can be colored with many chemicals including common bleach. Many formulae contain harsher chemicals (sulphuric acid) and generaly have other metals such as iron disolved in the acid. From MACHINERY'S HANDBOOK - Copper is more susceptible to coloring processes than any of the other metals. Caustic soda and copper carbonate are used to produce a yellow. Another yellow that can be adjusted to a brown is created with lead acetate, sodium hydrate and red potassium ferrocyanide (added by the grain after a precipitate forms from the lead). As you can see the materials used can get quite nasty. Prior to the above there were several paragraphs on cleaning the metal before trying to color it. Once cleaned the parts should be handled with cotton gloves to prevent getting the slightest bit of oil on the surface (unless you want your hand prints to be a permanent part of your art). Besides MACHINERY'S, books on gunsmithing often have many recipes for coloring metals. Give either Norm Larson or Centaur Forge a call (see getting started for contact info). I think they both have books specificaly on coloring metals. -- guru Wednesday, 07/14/99 21:31:36 GMT Julie, you may be thinking "penetrol", an exterior preservative normally associated with wood. Have never tried it on metal. Perhaps someone else has?????? Craig -- schaefc at hevanet.com Wednesday, 07/14/99 21:47:51 GMT ARMOURY: David, A regular anvil is the most used tool in the blacksmith shop but not so much in making armor. Lots of old tree stumps (short sections of log) are most useful for working sheet. The ends can be shaped into shallow depressions or even shaped convex for various forming operations. Sheet metal stakes, bickerns and home made devices can be set into the stumps for viening and detail work. THEN, bits and pieces of heavy industrial iron (forgings and castings) from a scrap yard can be found that come very close to the iron "maids" of old. After these a good heavy vise (preferably a blacksmith's leg vise) is more used than an anvil! A vise can be used as a sheet metal break (for bending) and a tool holder besides beig able to take considerable pounding. Good vises are harder to find than anvils and more expensive per pound. For new anvils call Kayne and Son http://www.kayneandson.com, Centaur Forge or Bruce Wallace for NEW and USED anvils. THEN after the price shock. . . Check ABANA and find the nearest chapter. They will have regular meetings and there WILL BE anvils for sale! You may want to read our anvil series before purchasing a used anvil. -- guru Wednesday, 07/14/99 22:17:36 GMT Guru, If I fall into a dung heap, I would hope to be brushing off more then anvils. Maybe a few power hammer. Lets make the stink worth getting dirty over. I don't work at it, it WORKS at me. Bruce R. Wallace -- Wallace Metal Work Thursday, 07/15/99 01:47:20 GMT Dear Guru; I need to make scrolls out of 3/8 round stock. These will be used on a sleigh. Do you have any thought on how to make the center or starting point look nice as in the design of. What I am talking about is as an example a fish scroll or penny scroll. I am leaning towards using flowers or rosettes in the center. If I could use flat or square stock I would not have this problem in creativity. But I need to use round. Do you have expierience or seen a decent scroll of round stock? Jim Kucera -- jimanddiane at foxvalley.net Thursday, 07/15/99 02:39:39 GMT Jim, Yep! Round just takes a slightly different mind set. The Italians use lots of round bar rather than square. Look for Italian work for examples. Scrolls can have an upset ball end. It looks like a penny scroll in silouet (sp) but from any other angle it will appear spherical. It only takes a small upset as you reduce the bar going into it slightly. Scrolls in square AND round bar can be started with a tightly scrolled end that looks like a penny scroll but is actually a long slender taper scrolled up solid. Flowers, leaves and animal heads can all be made on round stock and used for -- guru Thursday, 07/15/99 03:32:57 GMT Hmm keyboard problems. . . . . scroll terminations. Snakes, lizards, birds and fish all lend themselves to round stock. At the Washington National Cathedral this weekend we saw some of THE most intresting uses of flowers and animal heads as terminations. The one that struck me as most intresting was a thisle end on round stock. Its bulbous almost spherical base and slightly splayed petals are a perfect termination for a scroll in round bar. Flowers can be used ON of OFF axis. On axis they face toward the loop and are a continuation of the line of the scroll. OFF axis they become a large "disk" like a bean end or "penny" end. The round stock can remain on-size to the termination where it makes a tight bend to go into the back of the flower. Round bar, square, TRIANGULAR? Use your imagination. -- guru Thursday, 07/15/99 03:42:42 GMT I am going to build a shop behind my garage and am looking for plans for a masonry forge. Are you aware of a book or another source that contains masonry forge plans? Rick Harrison -- richard.harrison10 at gte.net Thursday, 07/15/99 05:04:11 GMT some new detail pics and a small movie of my power hammer http://www.chariot.net.au/~sjs/hammerdetail.html original page is http://www.chariot.net.au/~sjs/power-hammer-page-1.html shannell -- sjs at chariot.net.au Thursday, 07/15/99 11:08:26 GMT Rick: The only book I am aware of (but I'm sure there are others) is Practical Projects for the Blacksmith by Ted Tucker. Norman A. Larson (larbooks at mail.impulse.net) might have the book. Phil -- rosche at dilbert.aticorp.org Thursday, 07/15/99 11:14:45 GMT Shannell, I've got a ton of videos I wish I had time to process to MPG! Several observations - You need more/heavier steel plate on the engine block for an anvil plate. The cast iron block cannot take the pounding directly. The stroke is a little short. Its going to take a longer stroke to get a good hit. Using the piston rod and pin is ingenious but the pin has too much overhang (sticks out too far). The added leverage on the pin may cause it to fail. As always, these are a type of R&D project. They will probably never perform like a commercial hammer. But like anvils, "any hammer is better than no hammer". GREAT stuff! Thanks for sharing with us! -- guru Thursday, 07/15/99 12:22:04 GMT About my hammer Yeah the anvil is only setup up for r&d at the moment will be putting in a hunk of plate real soon The stroke is too short isnt it shannell -- sjs at chariot.net.au Thursday, 07/15/99 14:09:33 GMT |
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