| WELCOME to the anvilfire Guru's Den - V. 3.0 |
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THIS is a forum for questions and answers about blacksmithing and general metalworking. Ask the Guru any reasonable question and he or one of his helpers will answer your question, find someone that can, OR research the question for you. This is an archive of posts from November 8 - 15, 2006 on the Guru's Den |
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Shop Clutter: The primary reason I'm sort of looking forward to moving the forge into a larger structure (I should live so long) on what is now my part of the farm is the chance to do a proper layout, with good access to tools and storage. It will make all the stress and expense and labor worth it. This is, of course, after the wif gets her house built. In the old stripping house, things grew "organically" except for the immediate forge area. It's sort of the U-boat storage system, as long as you only have to move three things or less to access a tool or stock, you're doing okay. Rain, rain and more rain on the banks of the lower Potomac. Visit your National Parks: www.nps.gov Go viking: www.longshipco.org |
| Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Wednesday, 11/08/06 00:22:44 EST |
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John Lowther, When using that little MIG you will find that you get a deeper and narrower puddle (penatration) but more spatter using straight CO2. Argon CO2 will result in a flatter shallower puddle with less spatter. Don't try and weave around and create a wide bead with it. Build your weld up out of smaller stringer beads joined together to get the maximum amount of penatration from each pass. T Gold's suggestion of a preheat is helpful when your machine is stretched to its limits like that. TGold, You won't have to do anything fancy to tig braze your stainless. Silicon Bronze rod is very useful for this. Just make a good fit up and be sure your parts are clean before heating. I think Ries also mentioned using Silicon Bronze for joining Stainless a few days ago in response to another question. Keep a good eye on your arc so you don't bring the stainless to its melting point but keep it hot enough to flow the bronze. Be sure you keep a sheilding gas flow on the cooling joint- set your post flow slightly long and hold the torch in position over the joint for a few seconds when you back off the pedal. |
| SGensh - Wednesday, 11/08/06 11:06:35 EST |
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Thanks for the welding suggestions. I was trying to weld about 1/2" rebar to ~1/8" heavy sheet/light plate. . . I don't remember the CO2 flow rate, but it was maybe a third of the way up the column of the flow indicator. There is very little (if any) post flow. I'll try it again with pre-heat: I'll be heating it to red or hotter to help straighten it anyway. . . |
| John Lowther - Wednesday, 11/08/06 13:01:17 EST |
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1/2" to 1/8" sheet should be nearly burning through the plate. However, if the plate is rusty, dirty, scaly or galvanized (SS or plated) the weld WILL NOT stick. |
| - guru - Wednesday, 11/08/06 14:43:41 EST |
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I have a Lakeside anvil about 150 lbs made by Hay-Budden (per its late serial number and other marks). It appears to be a solid steel top fixed at the waist to an iron bottom. The anvil seems un-used, as though it just came off the finishing floor. But there is a thick weld around the waist like a large 3/8 in bead from an electrode. At first I thought it was a repair, but now I think it was just unfinished. What's the likely explanation for this bead on an otherwise clean anvil? Thanks, Bruce |
| - Bruce Dembling - Wednesday, 11/08/06 16:24:27 EST |
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hey y'all, i have all my equipment now and i'm starting to actualy forge alot now. I have a question about making tongs. on the i forge demo for tong making it says use a 5/8" rod can oi use a 1/2" rod? and do it the same way? thanks Andrew B. |
| - Andrew B. - Wednesday, 11/08/06 16:58:46 EST |
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Bruce. Both Trenton and Hay-Budden made LAKESIDE anvils for Montgomery Ward. Yes, at least in the case of Trenton, they went to arc welding the base to the top rather than forge welding it together. Wouldn't surprise me had H-B did the same. Matter of economics. In Anvils in America Richard Postman has a statement from a former owner of Columbus Forge & Iron Co. they didn't like the loss in the ring from doing so. H-B did go to a solid tool steel top in 1908. I'd have to go back to AIA but I believe Trenton stayed with the welded on place until they ceased anvil production. However, I saw a Trenton on eBay with a butt-ugly waist weld. Seems like they would have at least ground it down flush. |
| Ken Scharabok - Wednesday, 11/08/06 17:09:46 EST |
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Hay-Budden did arc weld quite a few of their late anvils. Ocassionaly you find one with a bad weld. Bruce Wallace had one that hanging together by the last inch of weld. . He ground it out and rewelded it. Some of these anvils had cast low carbon steel bases but all that I have seen on Hay-Budden's were forged. Peddinghaus anvils are made the same way. Good hardenable steel for the top and low carbon for the bottom. Depending on inventory some have the same high carbon steel top and bottom. |
| - guru - Wednesday, 11/08/06 17:17:22 EST |
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Tong Making: There are many ways to make tongs. The starting stock size is generally based on the finished jaw size desired. 1/2" (13mm) works but makes light tongs. To make good stout tongs 3/4" square is best. Normally you forge the jaws and only draw down to where the reins are square or round. Then you weld on the reins rather than doing all that drawing. However, the drawing is good practice for a newby and makes much better tongs. Smiths with power hammers prefer to start with large stock because it holds heat. After forging the jaws the reins can be drawn out in one heat on a small power hammer. |
| - guru - Wednesday, 11/08/06 17:22:51 EST |
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(is there anything free in this world?)...hey does anyone no how to get a smithing show idea on tv like the discovory or history channle i realy think people would be interested in it i mean i no writers need money to but hey it mite even get more people interested!!! also how much would a good anvil be and where could i get one around culpeper va. |
| thomas mayhugh - Wednesday, 11/08/06 20:34:02 EST |
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I need a little help with my tool research here. First of all, thanks again Ken on the anvil ID help!!! Next, I have a Champion forge/blower setup (all legs under the forge pan), but the blower is un-numbered on the fan housing. Was the 400 model merely denoting the size of the blower or was the whole unit bigger, my gear housing has all the same markings as the 400. I'm wondering cause it might need a re-build in a bit (sounds a bit more like a coffee grinder than a blower at times), so I'll need to scavenge the appropriate sized parts. |
| Thumper - Wednesday, 11/08/06 21:02:27 EST |
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Thumper, There is a very good picture of your blower on the Champion CD review. It has 400 cast in big letters. They also made a 200. Gravely gears and bearings are bad news. About all you can get are new balls for the ball bearings. |
| - guru - Wednesday, 11/08/06 22:21:45 EST |
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TV Smithing: It IS time for a new PBS show. . . There was a series called Forge & Anvil (see our review) intended for the public but is being sold to blacksmiths as a how to. The fellow that did it, Allan Rogers says it was just an introduction to the public but there was an awful lot of step by step that seems a little hokey today. But the world has changed a LOT since then. It is also hard to please everyone. It would be great to see some real blacksmithing on a major network. Well produced exciting stuff including hand and power hammer work. But there would also be the people that want to see tours of great ironwork in cities areound the world. Then there is a difference between how-do and a serious exciting demo that captures both the public's and smiths attention. ANNND. . . you would have to have good tecnhical overview to keep the TV people and the misinformed touts in line. Then there is the money. Someone would have to put up big bucks. . otherwise you get something like the formula stuff the History Channel cranks out that has no teeth and a LOT of amatuer (IE free) actors. . and you get what you pay for. . . You need writers with technical knowledge, good professional demonstrators, enough time with the film crew to do it RIGHT as well as a real director, then more time editing. . . Costs run tens of thousands of dollars per minute. Even private productions like the Dave Manzer and Big BLU Power Hammer video run into thousands of dollars per minute. Time compression is a big issue. One of the best short demos I have seen on video was a Phillipeano knife maker filmed by the Childrens Network for "123 Contact". The video runs about 5 minutes. Besides traveling to the Phillipeens the filming took about a week from forging the blade to grinding, etching and assembly. The smith uses a cylindrical Oriental style box bellows and Japanese forge, does a terrible forge weld lamination of three pieces and then forges a Kris from it. It is a great, but far too brief a piece of film. They edit to what the bosses want. |
| - guru - Wednesday, 11/08/06 22:44:32 EST |
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Anvil in Northern, VA: Thomas, Just scurry on down to John Elliot's in Chester, VA (near Richmond near I95 & I64. He carries Euroanvil. Its close enough to save on shipping. And if you have not joined CVBG then do it! Great folks. Go to a meet! Next one is this weekend (Saturday) at Tom Chenoweth's shop in Richmond, VA. Directions should be on their web site. |
| - guru - Wednesday, 11/08/06 22:51:51 EST |
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If you buy the anvil John will probably deliver it to the meet. . two birds with one trip. |
| - guru - Wednesday, 11/08/06 22:52:53 EST |
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Guru, I think you misread my post, mine doesn't have "400" or "200" on the blower and I'm wondering if the gears are interchangeble or come in different sizes. I've already swapped out the original top bearings for some enclosed ones(had to rout out the centers and shim the outer walls to make a match), and the bottoms are "eh" but still working however large the brass gear is about shot. |
| Thumper - Wednesday, 11/08/06 23:26:35 EST |
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Excuse me, I don't proof read that well, I meant "THE LARGE" brass gear is about shot. |
| Thumper - Wednesday, 11/08/06 23:30:47 EST |
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Thumper's anvil may be the oldest known Arm & Hammer. Faint stamping on side. Circle with the arm, but with hammer worn off. Under to right can be read WROUGHT. I speculate at one time it read WARRANTED over Arm and Hammer logo and SOLID WROUGHT under it. No evidence of a serial number. Flat on bottom. |
| Ken Scharabok - Wednesday, 11/08/06 23:34:27 EST |
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how would i go about making light box jaw tongs from a 1/2" X 36" round rod? thanks Andrew B. |
| - Andrew B. - Wednesday, 11/08/06 23:45:50 EST |
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I can see it now, Britney Spears is this orphan who needs a place to stay, see, and she winds up landing a gig as the scantily clad apprentice in this shop run by Sarah Michelle Gellar and Amanda Peet, the scantily clad resident smiths, and they are facing a big crisis on account of the old meanie landlord wants to hike the rent or take it out in flesh. Rich girl Jenna Elfman, also scantily clad, comes in needing some riveting done on her bicycle, and sees right off that there is a problem here. Sarah Michelle thinks the way to go is with quarter-inch rivets, but Amanda is saying she feels they should turn the shop into a Starbucks, when who should come in looking for a cuppa but.... |
| Miles Undercut - Thursday, 11/09/06 00:20:23 EST |
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Thumper, How close n size were you able to get those bearings you replaced on your blower? I recently rebuilt a Buffalo Silent 200 blower I bought and found that the bearings on the output shaft were metric despite the fact that the blower was made in the US long before the metric system came into widespread use here. I was originally going to buy some 15/32" bearings and modify them as you did until I measured the shaft with my metric micrometer and found it to be exactly 12mm. The OD of the bearing also proved to be a standard metric size at 32mm, which allowed me to use stock bearings. I'm curious as to whether the same might be true for your champion blower. Perhaps there was a cost advantage to using metric bearings when these blowers were manufactured. |
| Steven Galonska - Thursday, 11/09/06 01:33:20 EST |
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Steven, I went to a shop with the rod diameter and the race diameter and asked for what ever was closest. I didn't ask about whether they were metric or not and the shop did offer both calibrations. Remember, the Champion blower used the case as the outside race and it was imperfect at best when new. I was about 1-2mm off on the rod and approx 5mm off on the race. A little careful filing on the inside and shimming with plumbers tape on the outside and they worked fine. It's called "Gonzo Mechanics".....same stuff that helps you build a JYH. |
| Thumper - Thursday, 11/09/06 02:05:42 EST |
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Andrew B: Check out the I-Forge projects. I believe three or so ways to make tongs are shown there. On blacksmithing TV programs one was produced at the Andersonville Smithy at the Andersonville Civil War Prison site in AL. I have occasionally seen the CD set come up on eBay. Reported to be quite good. |
| Ken Scharabok - Thursday, 11/09/06 07:15:23 EST |
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MILES I like it! You ought to consider writing....... (always look forward to your posts) |
| - Tom H - Thursday, 11/09/06 08:22:19 EST |
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System de Metric: The ball bearing industry was metric very very early. Fafnir was one of the oldest (1911) in the US, then recently bought by Torrington, and now both by Timken. Prior to companies making ball bearings as a stock item they were made by the manufacturers of the product. Gears are rarely a standard item even though we have gear catalogs. The multi-start worms in Champion blowers are special parts completely made in their factory. Gonzo Mechanics: Well, that will get you from point A to point B with stone age machinery but not with precision gearing. When manufactured the gears in your blower had diametral tollerances of +/- .0001" and pitch spacing tolerances of less and surface curvature tolerances that required laping and hand fitting. If you improperly mesh the gears (adjust the clearance) by as much as .001" you get noisy gears. If you run them out of proper mesh rapidly wear and the noise get worse. Once gears are worn there is not much you can do. Short of stuffing the box with bannans it will be noisy forever. Back in the 1970's I had a 1950 Chevy pickup with a 3 speed transmission. It made so much noise that you could not carry on a conversation in the cab of the truck. So I tore it down and put $50 worth of new bearings in it. This particular gear box was a bear to dissasemble and required a special tool to replace the center bearing which had a circlip in a blind hole. After several days work and many dollars worth of parts I got it put back together and tried it out. . . . only about 10% better. So after a week or so of the noise and frustration I asked our big local auto supplier about the problem and he said. "Its probably worn out gears, we can get you a rebuit transmission for $100". So I ordered the transmission, put it in . . and the SAME exact noise! The rebuilders could not get gears either! So . . . I found out my oil supplier could get me a 1/4 barrel of 140 weight gear oil. Another $50! Ahhh. . . but that did the trick. Stuff pumped like tar but it killed about 50% of the noise which was enough to be tolerable. I've got a beautiful old Gould and Eberhart 16" shaper that I paid $800 for. It had open gearing. I used it for a couple small jobs but on my first large job, facing a poorly cast swage block I noticed a distinct wavy pattern in the cut. It was rough enough that it was unsatisfactory in even a rough cut. So I tightened and adjusted and oiled and adjusted. . . turned out the the bull gear and pinion, the heart of the machine, was worn. Not worn out that you could see but worn such that their geometry was bad and the ram had a slight shudder from each gear tooth which showed in the work. . . The bull gear was a very special casting with a scotch yoke slide supporting the crank pin. You could have one made for about $15,000. So the shaper is on the way to the scrap yard. . . Gears have to be right. About the limit of Gonzo mechanics on real machinery is using V-belts running on flat belt drive pullys. ----------------------- I could not find a history of Fafnir but I looked over and I have Fafnir and Torrington catalogs. . . Hard to believe catalogs I once ordered from are now resources for industrial history. |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 09:50:05 EST |
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Tom H-- Many thanks. The late, great Samuel Johnson summed it up longtime back: no man but a blockhead ever wrote, save for money. |
| Miles Undercut - Thursday, 11/09/06 11:10:19 EST |
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I am fairly new to the trade I have a small fire-clay forge but i would like to know how to free-standing steel forge |
| William Moritzky - Thursday, 11/09/06 11:11:47 EST |
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Andrew B. I like the three shoulder method of tong making using half-face blows. One jaw needs to have extra width to fold up the sides for the "box". You can begin the jaw shoulder and while the jaw has extra thickness, cross-peen it to gain the need width. Another route is to forge weld a strap on the back of the jaw at 90º to the jaw length. Crop to size and bend up each lip. MILES, I second that motion. Did'ja ever think about writing professionally? |
| Frank Turley - Thursday, 11/09/06 11:19:03 EST |
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I've been involved with several projects for the History Channel and produced an 18 minute historical/educational film on the Battle of Maldon (A.D. 991) which was broadcast on the History Channel, and portions of which still pop-up under “fair use” rules. (Hey! That’s our ship!) Most of these productions are shoestring operations. Maldon took us two years and a few thousand dollars, using our own vessels and crew and the troops from the Markland Medieval Mercenary Militia. It relied on the genius of David Tristan of the Longship Company, who makes his living as a television news cameraman, serving as director. Dave was able to turn our “cast of tens” and a couple of vessels and some farm fields and waterfront into armies and fleets and islands; mostly through the power of suggestion. There are many scenes where we have the same folks on both sides with a quick costume change. (At one point I, as the “Viking herald” am addressing myself as an “Anglo-Saxon thegn” from across the flooded causeway. I had the script taped to the blade of a broadaxe. :-) Our joke is that if we were given a six-figure salary and a seven-figure budget, we could have made it twice as good. When we did some segments for HC’s “Toolbox” series, one person came down from the independent production company. He was a self contained cameraman, soundman and director. He did some very nice work, and actually made us look competent. For the “Quest for Arthur” program, that company had a director, cameraman, and soundman/special effects/anything-else person. We ran them about in a separate vessel, and spent hours rowing back and forth across the creek so that they could get just the shots they wanted; then literally sailing into the sunset for the closing scenes. The finished production still used a lot of filler with moody cloudscapes and narration. I think that the point I want to make, looking at this from the inside and the outside, is that it’s a lot harder to do than it looks. Preparing a good narrative, setting up the scenes, getting the right shots at the right time, finding scantily clad “assistants”, and the balance between fundamental information and “more interesting stuff” for the rest of the audience would be difficult. After you get past “draw, upset, bend, and weld” things get a little harder to communicate. The model, of course, is Roy Underhill’s “The Woodwright’s Shop” but it is also a very wide-ranging show in its topics, using woodworking as a starting point for an investigation of several centuries of arts, crafts and technology. It even had a few good blacksmithing segments in it. Whether something similar could be done for metalwork, forging, casting, industrial, farriers, tools, techniques, arms, armor, housewares, hardware, art, science… Well there’s plenty of meat there, but it would take quite a bit of work, and most important, time and organization and travel. Lastly, it would take money, lots of money, to provide the equipment and skills and stock. As a non-profit, we were able to get much time and equipment donated; but there are always limits, and always expenses. If you’re looking to turn a profit on something, life gets even more complicated. It could be a lot of fun, but (trust me) it’s also a lot of work. I wonder what Roy Underhill is up to lately? :-) Nice and partly sunny on the banks of the Potomac. Visit your National Parks: www.nps.gov Go viking: www.longshipco.org |
| Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Thursday, 11/09/06 11:54:26 EST |
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Guru, I didn't mean to sound flip with my "Gonzo" statement. With no practical knowledge of machinery but a innate insite as to how the way things work I've managed to to make quite a few items that way and get great use out of them. My last project was a front loader for my yard tractor. Like with my JYH, I saw a pic, it made sense and I built it. Perfect, no, servicable and reliable, yes. |
| Thumper - Thursday, 11/09/06 12:07:02 EST |
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i would love to but dang i got a detail this weekend for mcjrotc is there another after that close by? thanks |
| thomas - Thursday, 11/09/06 12:29:13 EST |
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Thumper, my point was that some things work and some dont. Gears generally do not unless they run very slowly. Even then primitive gears are quite noisy. On a local grist mill they had trouble maintaining the turbine bevel gears. I suspect there was no mesh adjustment left. The sound of the mill's turbine running was so loud that neighbors nearly a mile away complained. This was a cast iron gear running against a cast gear with wood teeth that was supposed to be quiet! The problem with improperly meshed gears is that they wear very rapidly. They go from having nice involute curves to having flat sides like a rack then concave and pointy. All the time they get noisier and noisier. The critical thing is mesh, how much clearance the gears have. Gears are never perfect and there must be some backlash between them. You want the least possible without there being a tight spot. A tight spot causes excessive wear an noise. However, if the gears are too loose they rattle and make noise. . and wear. The difference between too tight and too loose on blacksmith blower gears is about .005". On the Champion blowers each end of the shaft has adjustment nuts and the bearing preload can be adjusted as well as the axial alignment of the worm to wheel. Again, the too tight and too loose rules apply and must be carefully adjusted. It is a picky piece of hardware. If you want it to run quiet the adjustments must be perfect. If not the gears wear and then there is nothing you can do except put up with it until it will not run. Yep, there are some things you can away with real caveman engineering but quiet gears are not one of them. I once motorized a wooden rope making machine with hand sawed out wooden pullies covered with rubber cement for friction. Shook and rattled like an out of balance washing machine but it made rope in a hurry! |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 12:54:42 EST |
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Thomas Mayhew, Check with BGoP (Blacksmiths of the Potomac), then there is the Delaware group and the Northern Neck (noneck) group. The last have not done much but they do get together once in a while. Then there is a group over in the valley, meets in Staunton I think. CVBG usualy has a Christmas party over near Mechanicsville but the new newsletter did not give a date. |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 12:59:23 EST |
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The problem is not getting Miles to write. . its being his editor. ;) |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 13:00:41 EST |
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William Moritzky, I am not sure what your question was. You want to make a steel forge? The best route is to start with a commercial fire pot, tuyeer and blower. Centaur Forge, Blacksmiths Depot and Pieh Tool sell the parts for forges. Blacksmith Supply sells forges with hand crank blowers. You put the firepot in a steel table top the height to suit you and you are off and away. |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 13:13:06 EST |
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Yeah, Miles; Mebbe WPA will come back now, and all us creative types can get work with the gubmint, doing writing, forging, painting murals, etc., just like the old days! Lessee, Hillary can play the part of Eleanor Roosevelt, Jimma Cahtah can be Franklin, B.J Clinton can be Fatty Arbuckle. See? There's something for everyone; "Each according to to his needs; each according to his abilities." (Oh, wait a minute, somebody already used that one, didn't they.) |
| 3dogs - Thursday, 11/09/06 13:56:42 EST |
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TV Smithing: I WAS going to suggest that Thomas M. find us a fat Ford Foundation grant for CSI (we ARE a non-profit that can apply for grants) to produce a series of dramatic, historical, educational documetaries on blacksmithing. But then 3dogs made fun of me. . . ;( OBTW, In case you missed it, the sons and daughters (figuratively) of all those Democrats you listed got re-elected Tuesday. |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 15:40:24 EST |
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The hand of Miles writes and having written moves on----usually 1 step in front of the mob with the pitchforks and torches. Actually I have read some of Miles' work in Smithsonian magazine. And I have visited the wing he donated to the near SantaFe Experimental Solar Temporal Observatory and scrap pile. And used sympathetic magic to try to end the drought... Thomas |
| Thomas P - Thursday, 11/09/06 16:13:54 EST |
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Where can I find (on the internet) an "S" curve chart for 5160? Thanks!.. |
| - Tyler Murch - Thursday, 11/09/06 17:44:05 EST |
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Let's see: For caveman forging there would be Bo Hickory, who seems to have ready access to attractive, scantly clad assistants. For western town or ranch we have Frank Turley. For Colonial we have Peter Ross. |
| Ken Scharabok - Thursday, 11/09/06 18:08:39 EST |
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Thomas M, BGOP meets in Arlington twice a month (there's only one regular meeting in December). Schedules and directions are at bgop.org. The site seems to be down right now; drop me an email if you're interested and it doesn't come up shortly. You should also know that we're revising our rules and you may be required to bring a parent or guardian if you're under 18. Email me if that's an issue and I can check before you drive all the way up here. |
| Mike B - Thursday, 11/09/06 18:29:36 EST |
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Homemade powerhammers: Is there any technical reason why most home made airhammers have the cylinder mounted above the tup rather than below (like the KA75)? |
| Bob G - Thursday, 11/09/06 18:47:34 EST |
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I spent about an hour and a half today with a reporter and photographer from the Bucks County Courier Times today showing them my house, my work and my shop. I did some demos, drawing to taper, forming an S hook, did a forge weld, etc. An article will be published tommorow, if there's an internet version I'll post it. Of course I explained that it if weren't for resources like Anvilfire I wouldn't know half the stuff I know now. |
| - Nippulini - Thursday, 11/09/06 19:22:31 EST |
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Movies: Alex Bealer Blacksmith association arranged a private viewing of Bill Lishman's The Last Buffalo at the Tennessee Aquarium Imax theatre. We liked it. Had an interesting mix of blacksmithing and wildlife conservation. Hmmm... blacksmithing and wildlife. Anyone here seen it? |
| Tone - Thursday, 11/09/06 19:30:02 EST |
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i made a pair of light bow jaw tongs today, and i used the dempsey twist style of tong making, but the part of the jaw right where it merges into the pivot part, it keeps bending when i pick things up. Does anyone know what i'm talking about and if you do is there anything i can to to fix it, or should i just start over? thanks Y'all Andrew B. |
| - Andrew B. - Thursday, 11/09/06 19:42:38 EST |
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Mr.Turley, Is the method for tong making that you describe similiar to the description in "The Blacksmiths Craft"? |
| Tone - Thursday, 11/09/06 19:53:47 EST |
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5160: Tyler, see if the info in our Heat Treating FAQ is what you want. |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:09:02 EST |
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BGoP: Mike, we used to host their site under one of our ???.ABANA-Chapter URL's. They moved when they got their own URL. We would have hosted it. The Gulf Coast Blacksmiths recently lost their URL due to failure to pay their registration. It is now a link trap. I have mentioned it before but I guess we need to send letters to all the chapters. anvilfire/CSI is willing to hold registrations for organizations to prevent this kind of thing from happening. Usualy SOMEONE (you know - who knows?) registers the URL. The when the first renewal comes around the email address is dead and the notice goes unnoticed. Then a link trap or porn site buys the URL and points it to their content. It only takes a 24 hr. slip and then all is lost. You MIGHT be able to get the URL back for $1000 or so. . . MAYBE. It is a problem for individuals and a bigger problem for volunteer organizations. People come and go. FOlks change their e-mails. There are several organizations that have had more than one "official" site and they couldn't say which was the REAL official site. . . I change URL's about 4 times a year for organizations that have lost their URL and or hosting (that owned the URL). Ask YOUR oranization who has the keys to the URL registration. If the answer is not immediate and the secretary can not confirm it from his records you are in trouble. |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:09:25 EST |
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post vices: I have a post vice which has seen some use. No weld or grinding marks, but the jaws are no longer straight or parallel, making it difficult to clamp some things. I'm not sure if they are just worn, deformed from clamping hot material, or the edges bent back from clamping too tightly. Anyway, I know it's bad karma to attack anvils with a grinder, but what is the thinking on vices? It is servicable now, but would be a whole lot better with straight parallel jaws - eg at the moment, it's difficult to clamp a horizonal bar tight enough to cut with a hacksaw since it only grabs in the middle. Being in australia, it is unlikely to be particularly old and I value it much more as a working tool than a collectable. |
| andrew - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:09:32 EST |
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I'm trying to cold forming .08" thick 6061-T6 aluminum. It's age hardened to beguin with and work hardens fairly quickly. Can anyone tell me how to properly anneal this stuff? Thanks Mike |
| MikeM - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:11:10 EST |
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TONGS: Andrew, you may have fullered too deep or used too small of bar. The jaws from this style of tongs must be short as well to reduce the load on them. To repair it you can build up the back of the small part of the joint with a weld bead (gas, MIG, TIG). |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:12:07 EST |
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Leg Vise Jaws: Andrew, left to right or top to bottom? Top to bottom the jaws should touch at the top when closed. Depending on the size of the vise they should be parallel when clamping 1/2" to 1" bar. To adjust this you can disassemble the vice and give it a couple wacks on the anvil. These are soft wrought iron or mild steel parts and are not too hard to adjust. The other way is to find something to put between the arms just below the screw. Then tighten the vice and give it a wack with a hammer, test and repeat. If the problem is right to left then the frame or the front jaw is bent. Take the screw out and replace with the largest bar or pipe about 3 to 4 feet long that will fit the hole and adjust. It should not take much. You should not need to grind the jaws unless they are bent or worn curved. Since it sounds like they are high in the middle then I would grind them just enough . . then be sure to radius the top edge. Keep in mind the top edges touching when closed and parallel when clamped on 1/2" to 1" stock. Also note that blacksmith vise jaws are best when smooth, not serrated. Those that do come serrated have a very fine knurl. I would remove it even on a new vise but normally it wears off rapidly. Also note that many vises did not have thrust washers or have lost them. A couple big washers under the screw with grease or Never-Sieze will act as a bearing and make it a lot easier to clamp tight. I like a vise that you don't have to jump on to clamp tight enough. |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:27:25 EST |
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blacksmith classes? I'm coming to San Francisco later this month & would like to take part in the apparently vibrant US blacksmithing community. I was wondering if anybody is aware of classes or demos within a few hours drive towards the end of this month. I am looking at http://www.calsmith.org/wrkshp11_06.html but was wondering if there was anything else available around the same time? I have spent a reasonable number of hours pounding hot iron - I'd say I'm an experienced novice. |
| andrew - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:30:42 EST |
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The Great Nippulini THANK YOU for the credit! Hope you get a nice article. I've had mostly bad experiances with the press and learned that you should give them a written statement to "refresh" their memory about the technical aspects of blacksmithing (it is not casting or melting metal) and how to spell my name. . |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:31:54 EST |
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the jaws do not have a flat faces - mostly left to right. I would say they are just worn, but they still have a distinct knurl. |
| andrew - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:37:43 EST |
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Tone, Yes, in "The Blacksmith's Craft" and in Schwarzkopf's "Plain and Ornamental Forging". It may also be found in Robert Harcourt's "Elementary Forge Practice", 1938; John Lord Bacon's "Forge-Practice (Elemantary)", 1905; and Lynn Jones, "Forging and Smithing", 1924. If forge welding the reins, the face of the scarf is usually on the 2nd shoulder side, about 3" to 4" from the last shoulder. The scarfs on the side are less liable to break than if on "top and bottom". Andrew B. Bow tongs and scrolling tongs get lots of pressure applied, when used. I sprung the jaws open on my mild steel scrolling tongs (needle nose style} years ago, so I have taken to making them out of old auto coil springs. When finished forging, I simply let them air cool. I don't use the fuller and twist method. Andrew, Thick vise jaw caps of copper or brass may help the vise grip a bit better. |
| Frank Turley - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:44:58 EST |
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The BGOP site's back up (unless the fault was between my brain and my keyboard in the first place). I think we're on top of the registration, but I can say without fear of contradiction that our secretary can't confirm it from his records (grin). |
| Mike B - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:45:09 EST |
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Air Hammer Cylinders: The KA is not the only hammer with pull down cylinders. The ORIGINAL Bull Hammer had a pull down cylinder and was a very compact little hammer. See the following: Outdated Air Hammer Report I have tried to get Tom T. to bring back the old Bull hammer because of its small size. It had some engineering and manufacturing problems that led to maintenance problems. However, I think these could be solved. It is not clear in the drawing but the ram on the Bull ran on a guide column made of 2" square (maybe 2.5") tubing. The weakness was the guides. They were held inside a bent plate steel housing with rivets. If there was ANY lack of lubrication the rivit holes opened up and the guides started ratteling until they broke their end retainers. There was no adjustment and the manufacturing of the simple looking part was hornedous. A more complicated adjustable guide system would be easier to manufacture. Our man Kiwi in New Zealand built a similar hammer and liked it a lot. The weakness was he used a pipe for the anvil. No mass and the hammer would just about a foot off the ground if not bolted down. . . On the other hand he could pick up the hammer and carry back into the shop on his shoulder! I have anvil stock to build a couple hammer and have seriously thought about Original Bull style hammers. |
| - guru - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:52:53 EST |
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I wish people would quit crapping on the press. |
| Miles Undercut - Thursday, 11/09/06 21:58:27 EST |
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I mean, look, if you want a textbook, buy one. |
| Miles Undercut - Thursday, 11/09/06 22:00:43 EST |
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Miles, I agree. And if you insist on printing your own textbooks, at least buy real ink (grin). |
| Mike B - Thursday, 11/09/06 22:18:11 EST |
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Andrew, One possible cause of the warping of your vise jaws is off-center clamping under pressure. Toomany people stick a piece of 1/2" bar in one end of the jaws and then reef down on the screw with all their might, torquing the jaw, the arm or whatever is the softest point. Whenever clamping a piece in one end of the jaws, you should put a similar-sized piece between the jaws at the other end so that the pressure is equal. I make up little scraps of 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", and 1" square bar about an inch long with a tab welded on the end to form a "T". The tab is just a piece of 1/8" by 1" flat bar about 2" long to keep the piece from falling through the jaws while I position and clamp the workpiece in the other end. That way the pressure is very even and the jaws stay parallel, holding much better. |
| vicopper - Thursday, 11/09/06 23:07:24 EST |
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Miles, In the press, we crap on the internet. Sauce for the goose and all that. (grin) You gotta admit though, the popular press hasn't been the same since the demise of Life. |
| vicopper - Thursday, 11/09/06 23:08:47 EST |
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I've been wanting a good deep texture for steel surfaces for things like the jewelry boxes I make. Does anyone have a good recommendation for a good texture? |
| Arlo - Thursday, 11/09/06 23:51:28 EST |
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Thanks, Mike. Vicopper-- the press as I see it (and what do I, a mere rural smith, presume to know of such things?)via Poynter.com, etc. is scared to death of the Net, and well it should be. They are losing circulation, losing ad revenue, cutting city room and bureau staffs like mad. Craigslist is killing them in classified. People are getting their news off blogs, etc. LIFE the weekly got scuttled in '72 as I recall, came back in a series of special issues, then reincarnated itself as a monthly. Now it appears every Thursday in some newspapers as a supplement, a pitiful atrocity of a parody of a once-great magazine. Even worse, they haven't run one picture of a decent swage block that I have seen, much less a scantily-clad smithereen. (That's a colleen who smites.) |
| Miles Undercut - Friday, 11/10/06 00:05:27 EST |
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Steel Textures: Arlo, There are numerous ways to produce textures. A lot depends on the thickness of the steel and if you are texturing before or after construction. Hot texturing is done with roughened hammers and press or power hammer dies. Often beads of welding is run across the face of the hammer or die. This is a time when you want bad sputter balled long arc ugly welds. Then grind to an average height and adjust. Use the hammers or dies to texture hot steel. You can also hot texture with commercial ball texture dies such as those sold by BlacksmithsDepot. Another hot texturing method is low level burning. You do not overheat the metal but heat it long enough to scale then hammer the scale just enough to break it up then heat again with the loose scale on the surface. The scale burns in and more scaling occurs in a rough texture and with each scaling and reheat you get more and more texture. How much scale you leave and how long the reheats effect the texture. Then there are chemical textures using acides such as in etching. One method I saw today in Metal Techniques for Craftsmen by Oppi Untracht (see our review) used a mask applied by splattering thickened paint or hot tar. Then the part was heavily etched. After a couple heavy etches the etchant was applied with a brush to create a grain between the splatterd unetched islands. When the etch was satisfactory textrued and deep the mask was removed and the piece polished. The result was high polished islands like droplets on a rough grainy surface. There are infinite varieties of this method. Then there are rust/corrosive finishes created with comon chemicals like Chlorox bleach. I personally prefer textures applied by the craftsperson by hand using hammer and embossing tools or ball piened hammer looks. They take effort and skill and the results are unmistakably different. Polished islands of celan metal between evenly textured fields. . . A lead block is used for support for this kind of work as well as anvils and wood blocks. If you use lead it is recommended that you put paper between the work and the lead to keep from contaminating the metal and creating un expected corosion or finishing problems. The book mentioned above has hundreds of examples of textures produced by many methods. |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 00:39:21 EST |
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3dogs-- You are definitely onto something here: workers of the world, unite, etc. You can be the Roy Stryker of the Anvilfire Preservation Project. I want to do the section on feng shui and the smithy, or, penetration coefficients relative to lee lines. Pass me that Brunton compass... oh, and the chardonnay, too... would you? And you simply must have some of this brie! |
| Miles Undercut - Friday, 11/10/06 00:52:10 EST |
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The Press, TV. . . etal, losing ground: The problem is not so much one medium taking traffic from another it is the medium being split or fractured. One of the "big three" broadcast TV networks was recently announced as #4 as one of the new "upstart" cable networks tool its place. At one time this was unthinkable. Of course at one time there was ONLY three networks. Then PBS came along and then cable with HBO and instead of the networks competing they gave up educational children's programmig and they gave up showing movies and documetaries. . . And now you can get HUNDREDS of channels slicing up what had been ONE pie divided by 3. . . New sat tuners are good for 500 channels. . . (and still nothing to watch). Times DO change. The computer revolution revolutionized the publishing industry to the point where anyone with a ffew PC's, the right software and some know how could launch a special interest magazine. Now where there were dozens there are hundreds and the good old standbys are floundering. Ford (or was it chevy) was picked off the big three auto manufacturers by Toyota. Like the TV networks there was only three on the American roads for decades (the small Euro influx didn't count). Now there are more than I can think of between Japan, Korea and China. . . Although I belive in "Buy American" and that we should support domestic industry the American auto makers shot themselves in the foot when instead of competing they just bought vehicals from Japan. . . . Japan in turn keeps its competitive edge by scraping entire factories every three years. Where do they go? Other countries in Southeast Asia . . . How do you think the Koreans suddenly were in the auto manufacturing business, and Taiwan in machinetools and. . . Things change. Sometimes for the good, sometimes not. |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 01:00:50 EST |
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Texturing: don't forget the method of forging on a chunk of granite for an anvil! Press; Miles you were involved with one of the pinacles of the craft. The articles written from interviews with me have contained so many things they got *wrong* that often time they have "quoted" me saying exactly the opposite of what I did say to my great embarassment in many of the re-enactment and LH groups I am/was a member of. This is after I offered to proof their copy too! Thomas |
| Thomas Powers - Friday, 11/10/06 01:02:44 EST |
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Thomas-- and yet... and yet... here we are, alive and well. The planet continues to spin west to east. The sun rises. It sets. So bloody what if some underpaid, overworked inkstained wretch got somepicayunething wrong? She tried, no? She cared enough to come talk to you. She immortalized you in print. Do we pillory all blacksmiths for the few who use JB Weld and Bondo? Who arc weld square tubing into cut and paste trellises and call it wrought iron? Gimme a _____in break! Let us lighten up here, brtehren. Tomorrow they wrap fish in it. |
| Miles Undercut - Friday, 11/10/06 01:51:25 EST |
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I almost forgot, the part of that old Marxist Walldog, Diego Rivera could be covered by our own Leftenant Rich. |
| 3dogs - Friday, 11/10/06 02:53:51 EST |
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I doubt I could get the local county weekly paper to come out to do an article. However, were I to write the article myself in the third person and submit it, then likely they would run it. |
| Ken Scharabok - Friday, 11/10/06 06:27:16 EST |
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Haven't read it yet... just woke up all bleary eyed. Ken, my folks actually were the ones who "tipped" the newspapers off about my work. You know how parents can get. If you wrote your own, they would probably put it in the editorials. |
| - Nippulini - Friday, 11/10/06 08:52:55 EST |
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Much More Texturing: Ah yesssss... the old textured anvil. . Someone here had mentioned casting in a cuttlefish mold. It does leave a very interesting texture. A 20th Century effect. Leaving the steel plate on a gravel road or driveway and running over it multiple times. . . Texturing from front and back gives you opportunities you would not otherwise have. Such as: A warty look can be produced by punching with a small round end punch into a stiff repousse' pitch or lead block then turning the work over and driving the bumps back down slightly. The same could be done on previously textured plate then the high points (the warts) sanded smooth. One of the most interesting modern textures I have seen was the result of coarse flycutting a texturing die face. The arcing cuts make a checkerboard or scale effect. The object of flycutting is NOT to do this but any machinst could easily create this texture with great control on demand. I saw this on some fish jewelery many years ago. Between the texturing and the press blanking they were 100% machine made but the texture was so marvelous it made them look hand made. Only a machinst would know the difference. Another machine texture that is very subtle is one I create on surface ground parts. By letting the wheel get a little rough so that it is leaving slight tracks you then rotate the work about 60° and take another pass. The result is like a very even hand scraped checkered pattern. You cannot feel or measure this texture but it positively glistens in good light. You can often plate over such textures and preserve them in the plating. This leads us to hand scraping. This was a technical craft at the turn of the 20th century when most prescision machine surfaces were hand finished. Hand scraping to a checked finish is typicaly done with a long file with handle that has had the end ground to a chisel edge. The finish produced is an even checker board effect to cover the random scraping that produced the perfectly flat surface. It was just a slight surface effect that should not be felt. However, I did see a fellow absolutely ruin a milling machine by deeply checking the surface. . Then there is the good old spot finish that was so popular in the 1950's. A wood dowel with a little abrasive in the end is turned in a drill press and and pushed into the surface of the metal repeatedly in a even overlapping pattern. However dated it is still a popular finish in some areas. It can also be applied artisticaly using different size spotting and geometric OR random patterns. Form Folding: While some of these effects would ocassionaly occur randomly Charles Newton Brain created the first new method of metal working in a milinea called "form folding". One of the areas of form folding is the production of surface effects. Take a piece of sheet metal (any thickness) and fold it in two, then fold it again at a different axis then again and agin until you cannot fold it up any more. . then open it up and flaten it out using a wood mallet or non maring tool. The creases both raised and lowered are almost impossible to remove as the metal is permanently stretched at the folds. The variations on this are infinite. Example: 1) Fold once and flatten 2) Accordian fold parallel and flatten 3) Accordian fold, flatten and then fold at an angle and flatten 4) Fold and flatten, cross fold (any angle) and flatten 5) Fan fold on radial lines and flatten 6) Fan fold the above on opposite radial lines These methods can be applied to any thickness sheet or plate that you can manipulate. The thing to remember is that the thinner the material the less visible the raised lines and the finer the pattern needs to be. Bending can be done with machines or hand tools and the result is virtually the same. While the results look almost randonm they can be controlled and repeated. On a simple box a X fold at some angle can create an interesting effect that makes the observer think about how it was made. The genius of form folding is Charles Newton Brain creates various shapes that enclose space using the process. The amazing thing about his methods is that the tools (hammer or mallet and straight edge) have been available to artisans since before man first smelted metal and nobody discovered it and explored it. So, there are LOTS of teturing choices. Various tools, machines, chemicals all to produce whatever effect you like. |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 09:29:11 EST |
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More Form Folding: You can experiment with this with metal thin enough to fold with your bare hands like aluminium flashing or thin copper. Creasing is done with a burnisher just like folding paper. Remember that the crease must be a tight bend in order to create a good raised line. Form folding works in any maleable metal from aluminum to zinc. Creases can be modified by lightly hammering them flat on edge to create a two cornered fold. When flattened the results are a squared raised line. In thin stock this can be done with your burnisher. This heavily raised line can be further textured by hammering or pressing in even or random spaces. An important tool for form folding at a certain thickness is a vise. This helpd make smooth tight creases without a lot of hammering and also when multiple folds need compressing. The thicker the material the bigger the vise until you need a press. Because form folding can be applied to various metals and thickenesses it can be applied to everything from jewelery to public sculpture. |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 09:47:39 EST |
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Some people call spot finish "maching turning" a easy way to do it is to use a #2 pencil chucked in a mill and using the eraser to make the swirls. It just about the right amount of abrasive especially on hardened parts |
| - Hudson - Friday, 11/10/06 09:57:30 EST |
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hey y'all i have a steel chair that i need to fix, one of the legs is bent, BUT the chair is painted, AND the bend is on the leg to close to the seat so i can't get it over my anvil. How would y'all say i sould go about fixing it? thanks y'all Andrew B. |
| - Andrew B. - Friday, 11/10/06 10:08:25 EST |
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Andrew, can you say King KONG. . . Reverse the process that bent it. . . Sometimes if you have a U or channel section you can use a C-clamp to take out the kink and that straightens the part. Other than force produced by leverage I cannot help without being there. However, my experiance with modern steel furnitue is that trying to repair it is a pretty hopeless cause. Of course a lot depends on the original quality. |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 10:32:03 EST |
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About textures, we could go on and on. A needle scaler leaves a light texture. I like the straight or cross peened look (or half-round fullered) as opposed to the ball peened look. Power hammer marks, carefully and purposefully left, give a contemporary feel to the work. The local "New Mexican" newspaper will soon have a human interest story about Turley and Turley Forge. The reporter is a young woman originally from Missouri. Her father is a hobby smith, and she is acquainted with Doug Hendrickson and other BAM smiths. The photographer is a young man who was taken with the whole scene and volunteered to come out and give occasional gorilla work. We shall see. If errors there be, I laugh and wrap a fish or use as faux excelsior. |
| Frank Turley - Friday, 11/10/06 10:34:35 EST |
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Hudson, I've never seen spot facing that small. I guess what I am used to seeing is the 1" and larger diameter stuff used on aircraft aluminium cowlings and panel parts. Metalwork Technology and Practice has instructions. |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 10:36:42 EST |
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This 1st time I saw a pencil eraser used was on the bolt of a rifle. |
| - Hudson - Friday, 11/10/06 10:44:20 EST |
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Frank, You can always point them to your web site for facts. Hmmm. . seems there are some updates in order. Yep, Needle scallers and hand held air hammers can produce some interesting textures. Then there is a "brushed metal" finish produced by the roughest abrasive you can get followed by a light dusting with something finer to remove roughness. As Frank noted there are lots of texturing methods and we could go on and on. Combinations of textures cna give a very rich appearance. Start with a brushed finish followed by form folding or hammering. . .The trick is to develope your own special texture. |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 10:45:18 EST |
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Spot facing, or enignie turning or machine turning, or whatever else you call it, has been used,literally for centuries, on gold leaf work. For glass gilding work, we use a small wad of cotton covered with very thin chamois or velvet and no abrasive at all. The swirls can be as large or small as you wish, but need to be proportionate to the size of the area they cover. When doing heavier stock, such as silver sheet or steel, I usually use a piece of chamois glued on a stick and charged with valve grinding compound. This gives a very bright cut with little pressure and low depth of cut. Too fine an abrasive tends to leave "smearing" of the cut, reducing the brilliance. Then there is the matter of the pattern one follows. Straight rows overlapped by a given amount, or staggered overlaps, or circular patterns, etc. One of my favorites was to set up a hexagonal pattern and work it in sections. |
| vicopper - Friday, 11/10/06 11:58:37 EST |
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Texturing: I made a picture frame for my niece and textured it by using a cobblestone as my anvil. You can see it here: http://www.forgemagic.com/bsgallery/bsphoto0966.jpg When done hammering, I used my orbital sander to shine up the high spots and leave the indentation oxidized. |
| - Marc - Friday, 11/10/06 12:36:50 EST |
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I'm cold forming .08" thick 6061-T6 aluminum, trying to sink a bowl. It's age hardened to beguin with and work hardens fairly quickly. Can anyone tell me how to properly anneal this stuff? Thanks Mike |
| MikeM - Friday, 11/10/06 13:24:23 EST |
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On a TV program/mini-series or whatever. I rather like the approach/format in The Artist Blacksmith by Peter Parkinson. He shows some excellent completed ironwork and then shows how it was made. Same approach could be used for bronze swords or Crusade armor. Give the history of a battle and then transition into how the equipment was made. Some topics couldn't be covered, such as casting bronze cannons. |
| Ken Scharabok - Friday, 11/10/06 13:38:47 EST |
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Hay guys, here's a link to the article. No photos though.. which is a shame because the newsprint version had a couple nice ones. http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-11102006-739883.html |
| - Nippulini - Friday, 11/10/06 13:56:08 EST |
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I just bought an old hand-crank blower. I was wondering if I could soak the blower to aid in the cleaning of it. What kind solvent would work the best. The type of blower is a lancaster P.A. and we already sprayed it with pb blaster to loosen it up and it works very well. Just wnat to know the best way to clean it up. |
| - Erik Rookie - Friday, 11/10/06 16:47:50 EST |
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Mike, Heating 6061 near melting (I don't recall the actual temp.) and quenching in water will soften it. This is really "solution heat treating," and if followed by artificial aging will return the material to the T6 state. If you're curious, artificial aging just means holding the material at a specified temperature, probably somewhere around 400 F, for a few hours. |
| Mike B - Friday, 11/10/06 16:48:51 EST |
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Thanks Mike, That explains why I could not find anything on line about it. I bet if I look up solution heat treating in my Machineries handbook when I get hom I'll find something like the follwoing... Solution heat treat at 990 F for adequate time to allow for thorough heating and then water quench. Precipitation hardening is done at 320 F for 18 hours and air cool, followed by 350 F for 8 hours and air cooling. Precipitation hardening probably isn't going to happen, even if I could convince the wife I need the stove on for 26 hours, the heat is unlikely to be steady enough. |
| MikeM - Friday, 11/10/06 17:21:22 EST |
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Mike, The T-6 designation indicates it is pre hardened. Normaly this can be bent and formed in thin sections but not worked repeatedly or 3 dimensionaly. After annealing it will age harden given enough time. This is a couple years I think but varies with the temperature. A lot of industrial conditions are close to that 350. . . Aluminium plate is often stretched as well as age hardened. |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 17:58:24 EST |
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Erik, WD-40, kerosene. . . Be sure to put some SAE 20 to SAE 30 oil in the gear box. These thiugs don't have seals and they leak. They also have irreplaceable gears so you don't want to trash them. |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 18:00:30 EST |
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Erik, I found an old stuck blower. Drained it overnite, then added a cup or so of kerosene, and let soak overnite. Drained overnite, then filled with half kero and half ATF. Then rotated slow and carefully. Went both ways slowly, and found the direction the gears were happy turning. (some old blowers wear in and are only happy turning one way.) Then drained overnite. Filled with ATF, and have used that blower for several years now. I do add more ATF as it leaks out. Surprising the amount of gunk that will drain out even on the third drain. I like ATF as it has good low temp performance in my unheated shop, is cheap and available, and has a very nice anti-wear package. Good luck |
| - ptree - Friday, 11/10/06 19:28:57 EST |
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MikeM, Here's one way to anneal your T6 Aluminum. Use your oxy acetylene torch's rosebud with almost no oxygen and deposit an even coating of soot on the material. Now adjust for a neutral flame and heat the material just hot enough to burn off the soot. Let it cool before you work it. The same trick works for annealing Alu bar stock before bending. Good Luck with it. |
| SGensh - Friday, 11/10/06 19:42:26 EST |
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Miles; don't get your brie in a twist! I come at this from an engineering viewpoint where the purpose of writing is to convey information. If the information is not conveyed or is conveyed wrong then the whole thing is a bust and can be worse than if it had not happened at all. I am perfectly willing to allow other people to hold other views---until the fruition of my evil plot to take over the world. Then I will install a strict censor and shoot anyone who is stuffy about spelling... Ahhhh would you be interested in a job after the Coup? BTW if you specifically ask someone to *not* post your address in their article and they do... Thomas |
| Thomas P - Friday, 11/10/06 19:43:20 EST |
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Thomas, That is kind of like marking a package "Fragile". It just ASKS to be drop kicked, rolled down stairs. . . |
| - guru - Friday, 11/10/06 19:49:16 EST |
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Thomas-- Needless to say, I am truly and deeply shocked. I think you should immediately sue for an injunction against further publication of the scurrilous rag that inflicted such damage upon you AND immediate cash payment of the actual damages you suffered PLUS a hefty punitive judgment. This sort of thing simply must stop. For my own part, I am going to tell the conductor forthwith. |
| Miles Undercut - Friday, 11/10/06 20:14:03 EST |
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I was just offered a quantity of furnace coal that's been languishing in a basement for some years, is that decent forge coal? Or are there too many impurities in that type of fuel. I know it's larger than forge coal but busting it up isn't a problem. |
| Thumper - Friday, 11/10/06 23:44:00 EST |
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I just read a past post about texturing, is it possible to get reticulation on scale free steel with torch heat applied properly? |
| Thumper - Friday, 11/10/06 23:54:48 EST |
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Aluminum: The company I used to work for [Dana Corp.] anealed 6061T6 aluminum and hydroformed it int parts for the Corvett space frame. Suposedly they were back to T6 properties in 24 hours at normal temperatures. I guess that is a combination of work hardening and pasage of time. |
| Dave Boyer - Saturday, 11/11/06 00:30:19 EST |
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Engine turning: RecentlyI saw a work truck body [like a farrier truck] made from aluminum. It looked like somebody did the engine turning with a 7" grinder and a sanding pad. I was told of an aluminum sailboat that had an image of Neptune done on the bow in grinder swirl marks, aluminum boats don't need paint above the waterline. |
| Dave Boyer - Saturday, 11/11/06 00:35:15 EST |
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Old furnace coal: thumper, You never know. It could be top quality or red dog (paving and landscaping grade). Never bring home more than one or two buckets of coal to test BEFORE you buy. Ask Miles, I think he has several multi-ton piles of worthless coal in his yard. . |
| - guru - Saturday, 11/11/06 00:51:56 EST |
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Marc: Nice texture on the "cobblestone" piece. It has a good, organic feel to it. News: Hey, I was once called the "mister Rogers" of the Viking world by the Washington Post. Of course, I've been called worse (and usually by the crew). There is an entire art to what we call "press grooming." When to send out press releases, what printed materials to shower them with, flip remarks to refrain from. The truth is, what they don't know they will make up because they have to make a coherent story out of a string of impressions about something they frequently know nothing about. One time, back at the U of MD, the campus paper screwed up which side of the hill the Normans and English were charging about on at a reenactment of the Battle of Hastings. We sent a letter ending with "We do not need any more coverage like this." They printed: "We do not need any more coverage." Well, they're learning at that stage, but reporters who know better can also screw up from misunderstanding, deadline pressures, or pig-ignorance. About all you can do is hand them a useful wad of stuff with good, quotable information, mind what you say in an interview, keep them away from "Dirty Floyd the Insane" (and keep him away from them) and pray for the best outcome. Usually, there's no such thing as bad publicity, but good publicity is much to be desired. The other factor to keep in mind is even when you get just what you want, sometimes the public just really doesn't care, or retains some vague, trivial detail from the article and ignores the rest. Also, I prefer print to broadcast. Printed media may be wrapping fish the next day, but you can use copy to entice other articles or media. Broadcast stories flash by in just a minute or less (unless it's some "interesting" tragedy or crime or scandal or celebrity airhead) and people frequently have no source for follow-up, or just never get around to it. Interviews for the radio may be on the internet, but you have to dig deep to find them, and even then you would need to be motivated. Television news is the most fleeting of all, and we seldom bother unless they come to us. Still, you never know, and some small stories or letters to editors have yielded big results. Lovely day on the banks of lower Potomac. I'm working on anchor keys for admiralty anchors for our vessels, and hafting sets and punches as Christmas gifts for a friend. Visit your National Parks: www.nps.gov Go viking: www.longshipco.org |
| Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Saturday, 11/11/06 01:04:42 EST |
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I was wondering if anyone here has any experience in building old style locks? I'm trying to design an unusual locking mechanism for a coin chest that uses a screw key, that pushes a barrel and releases a pin. I would appreciate any help I can get on this. |
| Paul - Saturday, 11/11/06 07:14:08 EST |
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Locks, Keys and Locksmithing: Paul, See out iForge demo series on Locks and Keys, My review of Locks of Iran and the Spruce Forge Manual of Locksmithing. There are many books on locks and keys but most are out of print, rare and selling for collectors' prices. With all that, they tell you very little about the subject. The diagrams we show in our review of Locks of Iran are some of the best. I have collected a great number of lock and key books and found the source material for 99% of what is out there. It is all the same and does not tell you much. Your best bet is to study what old locks you can find and disassemble, as well as making your own. The techniques of making locks include just about every facet of metalworking and can be done with very few tools or using a complete machine shop. Note that any lock with rotating parts was made with some type of lathe. These were quite primitive with wood bearings and cutter spindles but they were sufficient to make the exactingly round wards and ward cuts as well as spindles and shouldered pins. The screw type lock you are speaking of is one of the earliest and most primitive types. Often the screw threads on the key was a piece of wire wrapped around the shank and brazed or silver solderd to it. Some were twisted and hand filed. There often was no "nut", just obstructions for the threads of the key to grab. Good luck! |
| - guru - Saturday, 11/11/06 07:48:14 EST |
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News Broadcasting: I was on the evening news once. I was doing a live demo at a local arts fair. I was the ONLY one doing a live demo, all the other artists were just sitting around trying to sell what they had brought (and apparently since i was doing a live demo, i didn't have to pay the $60 entry fee, because the coordinators thought my work and effort for the day was worth $60 :) )It was about the coldest and rainiest day of the spring, and on the broadcast I had the shortest length of shot. The rest of the coverage was all the artsy people sitting around looking miserable in the rain and wind....Thank you to the local news station. Sometimes we brutes just can't get the attention we love and thrive on... :) -Aaron @ the SCF |
| thesandycreekforge - Saturday, 11/11/06 10:12:51 EST |
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Need some information from someone about my propane forge located in my garage. Is my 30 gal. tank located in an adjacent room a bad idea or should the tank be outside? Then with the forge in the garage, is it recommended to have an exhaust hood with fan over the top? It's starting to get cold here in Idaho. Thanks, Arlo |
| Arlo - Saturday, 11/11/06 13:15:41 EST |
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Hi, I was at an antique / yard sale /swap meet thist morning and saw a PATXO (made in USA) cast iron , natural gas or propane smelting pot. At least I think thtas what it would be called. Its in PERFECT condition. it has 2 pipes underneath for the fire and a small pot on top for the metal. The guy wants $25. the whole thing is probally 8-12 inches tall and 12-18 inches long but I cant find any info on this can you help??? I would hate for this thing to be lost to a junk heap. If anyones interested let me know. Thanks Chuck |
| Chuck Lane - Saturday, 11/11/06 13:54:52 EST |
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Chuck, what you saw was probably used to heat soldering irons. Way back when, believe it or not, soldering irons were not electric- they were just pointy irons, which you had to heat up by putting em in a little furnace. On a job that might involve soldering miles of seams for gutters or metal roofing, a sheet metal mechanic would have 2 or 3 irons in rotation, with a couple getting hot in the little furnace, while he was using one. Probably Pexto brand, which is an abbreviation of Peck and Stowe, which is now a part of Roper Whitney. |
| - Ries - Saturday, 11/11/06 14:51:20 EST |
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OR: If it has a melting pot on top it was probably for melting lead that plumbers used to pour into joints. |
| - grant - Saturday, 11/11/06 15:57:46 EST |
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Jock, the link to Anyang does not work. |
| - grant - Saturday, 11/11/06 15:59:16 EST |
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Or---my old soldering copper heater had a spot on the top for a lead ladle too! I have several old style locks from Iran that use the screw key method. One is hand filed the other uses a worn out tap for the key... Thomas |
| Thomas Powers - Saturday, 11/11/06 16:47:16 EST |
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Press coverage. I had some experience this time last year. The local Chattanooga paper did well, but the Oklahoman got everything wrong! I gave the reporter a printed copy of the speech, and a fact sheet, both of which contained my name. They got everything wrong, including my name! I have my speech posted here: http://home.comcast.net/jodom25 It might be good reading for veterans day. |
| - John Ofom - Saturday, 11/11/06 19:27:35 EST |
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ON PRESS COVERAGE. Last year, about this time I had some press coverage. The Chgattanooga paper did well. The Oklahoma City Olalhoman really messed up. I gave the reporter the text of my speech and a fact sheet. Both contained my name and contact information. He got EVERYTHING wrong, even my name! The speech was a good story for veterans day. I posted it on the web, email me and I will send you the link if you want it. |
| - John Odom - Saturday, 11/11/06 19:31:26 EST |
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When I was on military parachute demonstration teams, I was interviewed alot. I learned pretty quick what they really wanted to hear, and kinda fed them that. I often promised the print guys a freefall photo to use, if they would let me see the copy prior to print. That often allowed me the oppurtunity to do a little gentle editing. To give the guys their due, they were often covering many items in a short period, that they knew little to nothing about. Easy to get it mixed up. I had a camera mounted on my helmet, and the photos had to be souped prior to my letting them have them. Gave me a little leverage, as freefall photos were pretty dramatic, and beyond the reach of their staff potogs. |
| - ptree - Saturday, 11/11/06 20:02:15 EST |
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On this Veterans day, to all vet's, let me say from one vet to another, Welcome home Brothers and Sisters! And lets us remember that freedom is not free. Remember all those that did not come home. |
| - ptree - Saturday, 11/11/06 20:04:21 EST |
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Chuck-- Sounds to me like a pot for melting the lead to wipe cast iron pipe joints with. Unless the pot just got included for the swap meet, in which case I agree with Ries, a heater for copper soldering irons. Arlo-- the tank indoors is not going to make the fire marshal happy. The forge needs LOTS of brisk ventilation to swirl the exhaust fumes away from your nose, throat and lungs. As long as you are moving around, pounding iron, etc., the cold won't be a problem. |
| Miles Undercut - Saturday, 11/11/06 20:11:30 EST |
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ptree.............AMEN, and for the friends we lost, GOD rest their souls and may we never forget them. Thanks for the post. |
| Thumper - Saturday, 11/11/06 23:54:27 EST |
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Frank Turley got a nice and nonembarassing write up in todays Santa fe New Mexican. |
| aaron craig - Sunday, 11/12/06 12:13:37 EST |
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Sorry for the double post. I got an error message the first time so I tried again. I have never had that happen on this site before. |
| - John Odom - Sunday, 11/12/06 15:40:18 EST |
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Propane Tank Location: Arlo, Most codes call for the tank to be outdoors. If there is no code covering your cylinder then it is up to you. What fire codes are concerned about is storage of possibly explosive quantities of fuel in a building that may be involved in a fire. However, even whe the code is followed this happens. The critical thing in your case is that the shop is not in an attached garage. The problem with propane in any building is that it is a dense heavy gas that does not waft away. It settles on the floor and builds up. If there is ignition the result is rather violent. In shops this is a hazzard that is accepted as a condition of operation. But in dwellings where there may be innocents involved it is not as acceptable. However, we DO use propane in dwellings for furnaces, space heaters and gas logs. The important thing is to check and triple check you plumbing for leaks. Shut off the gas at the cylinder and as part of leak testing check the valve stem for leakage. This is CRITICAL on rental cylinders that are exchanged. You never know how these cylinders have been treated or maintained. In a closed building you MUST have a vent stack (Not necessarily fan operated) over a gas forge AND sufficinet fresh air to allow a free flow up the stack. Otherwise CO2 and CO will build up to dangerous levels in a very short time. Again the safety rules are different if it is an attached building. In this case there should be a hood and stack under ANY weather and ventilation conditions. If you should opperate a gas forge in an attached garage with the door open for ventilation the fumes may be pushed into the house. So while the air is fresh in your shop you are killing anyone in your home. The wind conditions that cause these problems are not your noticable breezes but slow steady air mass movements that are almost undetectable. The same would apply to any gas appliance such as a gas grill. |
| - guru - Sunday, 11/12/06 17:20:50 EST |
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Carbon Monoxide: Recently my father suffered two strokes. After a long period of reflection he realized that the both occured after carbon monozide exposure in the shop. He was tweeking the engine for his ultralite. Now this is a LARGE shop (28 foot ceilings) and he had the ventilation exhust fan running AND the front garage door open. Both strokes occured about half an hour later. Today is is OK but has some lingering effects. Now. . my father besides being 80 is a life long smoker, something which raises the CO level in your blood so that further exposure does not need to be as high as that of a non-smoker to cause problems. An average smoker is half way to noticable effects from CO and 20 to 30% alon the way to serious problems. For non-smokers and smokers the buildup of CO in the blood takes several days to clear. While not permanently cumulative, if you breath CO fumes in your shop daily you will have raised CO levels in your blood. ANY over exposure at that point is just that much worse. An exposure that would be mildly disconcerting to a normal healthy person may knock you out. For smokers and others that have chronic long term CO exposure the damage to the body is cummulative. The effects of brief high level exposures are additive and thus greater to those with previous exposures. Many of us have brief exposures to CO in the shop. On an ocassional brief basis it is no worse than many other things we do to ourselves. However, when it is daily AND there is a spike, the results can be much worse than if it was just the one incident that caused the spike. So try to keep your shop well ventilated. You can be half way to a serious problem and not know it. Don't be the miners canary. |
| - guru - Sunday, 11/12/06 17:55:19 EST |
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Congrats, Frank-- It is real long and it has your name on it, as my mother which art in heaven used to say. Besides, it's a truly fine, well-written story! |
| Miles Undercut - Sunday, 11/12/06 18:19:16 EST |
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i have a question that doesin't really partain to blacksmtihing. As alot of y'all know i work at a historical park, so i have a costume, does anyone know where i could get a period western duster? It's just starting to get cold down here in Tejas so i need a coat, But i can't wear jsut any ol' coat. thanks y'all Andrew b. |
| - Andrew B. - Sunday, 11/12/06 20:32:47 EST |
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Andrew B, Are you gonna get a new coat and then put flying ash holes in it right away? When I was in Australia, the class chipped in and dressed me up. I got a Kangaroo hide hat similar to Crocadile Dundee's, but without the teeth. I got a pair of brogans with the traditional elastic on the sides and a pull-on strap. The nice, dark brown coat they gave me was of the "Bush Skins" brand. It may not be Wild West, but it is dang close. The Bush Skins are all cotton with some kind of sizing built into the material. They have an inner liner and an outer cape-like thing, so they are fairly warm. They sell a riding coat and an overcoat, both of which are fairly long. Mine was another style, car-coat size. Let your search engines find Bush Skins. |
| Frank Turley - Sunday, 11/12/06 21:47:43 EST |
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Andrew, Look up SASS (Single Action Shooting Society), or Cowboy Action Shooting on the net, you'll find a lot of "merchantile", or clothing vendors supplying the shooters and plenty of dusters etc. |
| Thumper - Sunday, 11/12/06 21:54:32 EST |
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Andrew B.-- Friend of mine got one in Australia, too. Like the ones the James gang wore on that last Northfield bank job in the moom pitchers. Here's a Google entry for it: Drizabone Akubra Blundstone The Complete Range!The complete ranges of genuine Australian clothing - Drizabone, Akubra, Blundstone, Ian Harold Boots & diCROCO all at discount prices. Also, J. Peterman will fix you right up with a lonnnnng duster, too-- for a trifling $184. See http://jpeterman.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_1001 www.everythingaustralian.com.au/ |
| Miles Undercut - Sunday, 11/12/06 22:33:34 EST |
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HI, I've been hobby smithing for several years, lots of hooks, decorative knots, curtain rods, pulls and so on. I built an open timber frame dining room here in Western Canada this spring and the owners like it so much they want to use it year round, so they asked me to build bifold shutters for the openings. The woodwork is under control but I need to teach myself (with help) how to make hinges. I looked at the info in iforge and liked the bending tool idea for wrapping the hinge. Each bifold will be ~18"x55" out of 1" fir. What size of strap should I be using for the hinge (just the bifold; the mounting hinge will be pintel so they're removable) and could someone post the dimensions of the bending tool (where you hammer the strap into it and it turns the hinge for you) so I can have one made up. Sorry for the length of post and tks in advance, Rich. |
| Richard - Monday, 11/13/06 01:04:54 EST |
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Arlo: From the bein |