Some tools to drool over.  Image (c) 1998 Jock Dempsey WELCOME to the
Virtual Hammer-In!

This page is open to ALL for the purpose of advancing blacksmithing.
Please read the RULES before posting a message. NOTE: This IS NOT the Guru page!

WHY THREE FORUMS? Well, this is YOUR blacksmithing forum to use for whatever you wish within the rules stated above. It is different than the Slack-Tub Pub because the messages are permanently posted and archived.

Our chat, the (Slack-Tub Pub), is immediate but the record of it temporary. Do not post permanent messages there. We refresh the "log" every couple days now and your message will be lost.

The Guru's Den is where I and several others try to answer ALL your questions to us.

Jock Dempsey -- guru at anvilfire.com - Monday, 07/27/98 & 03/01/99



ABANA 2000 JUNK YARD HAMMER NAME THAT EVENT CONTEST!

OK, SO lets hear some names for the "competition" or "event" at Flagstaff! IF you post your idea HERE or on the (to be setup) Junk Yard Hammer Page FIRST and we use it You will WIN, a one year ABANA membership and an ABANA 2000 JYH (noname yet) contestant T-Shirt! Deadline is Midnight GMT June 26th, 1999.

ABANA 2000 JUNK YARD HAMMER "MOST PHOTOGENIC" CONTEST

To win you must first BUILD a MEC-JYH or AIR-JYH then photograph it. Send the photographs or scans (no larger than 640x480, 24bit color or B&W JPEG) to anvilfire.com for publication. There will be a photo release making the images property of anvilfire.com so be sure you inform the photographer. You DO NOT have to haul your creation to Flagstaff, AZ!! Hey world! That means you guys in other parts of the world can enter this one! Deadline is March 15, 2000. FIRST PRIZE is $200 US CASH! And an ABANA 2000 JYH (noname yet) contestant T-Shirt!

MORE EXCITING ANNOUNCEMENTS LATER!

JYH contest sponsor -- contest at anvilfire.com - Sunday, 04/04/99 14:04:12 GMT


Let's be the first with the most!

Let's call it the ABANA Home Built Hammer Contest! Otherwise known as the HBH!

Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Sunday, 04/04/99 17:17:13 GMT


Come on you guys! You're not going to let sarge get away THAT!

More competition definitions. There will be FOUR (4) classes of hammer.
  • MEC-JYH, Mechanical Junk Yard Hammer
  • FAB-MEC, Fabricated Mechanical Hammer (no major junk or recycled content)
  • AIR-JYH, Air Junk Yard Hammer
  • FAB-AIR, Sorry, no commercial hammers allowed!
  • There's not much difference between the FAB-AIR and AIR-JYH so lets say the cylinder must be used/recycled. Hammers to be delivered to Flagstaff will need to be limited to 2,000 pounds gross at this point. If we find they will have a heavier fork lift then this limit may change.

    Complete rules to be posted later.

    JYH contest sponsor -- contest at anvilfire.com - Sunday, 04/04/99 21:54:45 GMT


    Whadda ya mean "get away with that"? They don't have any choice, I was da first and dat's da best! (grin) Want proof?

    Spring is Sprung,

    Da grass is ris!

    I wonda where da blacksmiths is?

    Da smart ones'll be at da Spring Fling!

    Warrenton, Virginie, April 16, 17, & 18th.

    Jim Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Monday, 04/05/99 00:10:19 GMT


    Hi all,
    We've been keeping a fairly low profile down here in South Africa. Our first hammer got sold to a lady blacksmith who operates out of a historical gold mining village near Johannesburg, and seen some really heavy service over the past few months. Happily, its holding up real good, with no sign of any latent weaknesses or defects. Even the Vee belt drive has lasted much longer than expected.

    Bertie Rietveld and I started on building the Mk 2 version, incorporating some ideas we came up with while building the first hammer. We'rer building two off, so we can each have one, and final assembly should happen over the next couple of weekends. The only real difference is that we're making much more use of flame-cut profiles (including a 60 lb 4" thick block for the hammer head), and going for a 2" flat belt drive instead of the Vee belts. We're hoping we'll get a smoother clutch action than with the Vee belts which tend to 'grab' a bit when you start up.

    We'll post a couple of photos as soon as we've got the hammers done and covered with a lick of paint.

    Happy forging

    tom nelson -- tom.nelson at pixie.co.za - Monday, 04/05/99 08:04:26 GMT


    How about the First Biennial Junk Yard Hammer SMASH-IN. Rate it by how quickly it can flatten a 1" X 1" bar at a yellow heat to 1/4 the thickness, then add a handicap based on the actual dollars spent. The winner would be the hammer that does the most amount of work for the least amount of cash.

    The wording in the challenge is somewhat ambiguous. I think Junk Yard Hammer captures the spirit of the project, although Home Built Hammer is also descriptive, and Back Yard Hammer would be my suggestion.

    By the above, you know who'se working on the plans for the Renaissance Junk Yard Hammer, and where he plans to build it. If you ask real nice, I may even provide some Thor's Hammer amulets to be given as prizes.

    The cherry blossoms are in bloom on the banks of the Potomac.

    Visit your National Parks (including the Mall and the cherry blossoms): www.nps.gov

    Come have a row with us: www.wam.umd.edu/~eowyn/Longship/ (cASE sENSITIVE)

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- bruce_blackistone at nps.gov - Monday, 04/05/99 17:33:51 GMT


    Do the SMASH, do the Junk Yard MoNsTeR SMASH! . . . I like it!

    Ren Junk Ham????? I'd even supply some materials for THAT one. Let me know what you need and PawPaw and I will bring it to the Spring Fling!

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Monday, 04/05/99 17:58:43 GMT


    Tom, We would LOVE to see your new hammer(s). Take lots of pics while building it.

    An ideas that might help. Flat belt clutch drives need edges on the pulley to hold the belt on when slack. Pat McGhee of Greenwood Ironworks came up with the idea of using a multi V pulley and machining off some of the ridges leaving the outside one to make a lip. Note that in between the edges the pulley still needs crown. This is a great way to get around fabricating a special pulley.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Monday, 04/05/99 20:51:12 GMT


    Bruce,

    Second the guru's comment! I'll be bringing the truck anyway!

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Tuesday, 04/06/99 04:31:58 GMT


    Jock, that's exactly what I did. Got a couple of heavy duty cast iron twin B section vee belt pulleys about 18" dia and machined the bottoms flat witha 1/2" lip each side. Note your point about crowning, but there's enough meat left to take a slight cut on the bottom for a crown so I'll do that before final assembly.

    While I'm here, your comment on hammer dies. I see virtually every hammer shows the dies held in dovetails with drift wedges. Now that's difficult to machine. I'm thinking O1 dies screwed from the back to a heavy mild steel plate with HT machine screws, the M/S plate in turn screwed to the anvil or hammer head also with HT machine screws. I don't like the idea of welding the O1 to M/S and this way I can replace dies without too much sweat

    tom nelson -- tom.nelson at pixie.co.za - Tuesday, 04/06/99 13:49:50 GMT


    Tom, Funny how people come up with the same solutions on opposite sides of the planet! While you are machining that crown be sure to make the sides of the belt "guides" vertical. The edge of the belt will try to climb the slope even as steep as it is.

    I've thought about screwed on dies but have never seen any. I HAVE had trouble with changes in size when hardening die stock (for punch presses) that made screws hard to fit afterward. I expect that one reason screws are not used due to the possibility of crack probagation. The other is that with the repeated compression of the hammer parts bolts will tend to loosen. However, NOBODY welded dies to M/S flanges but several of the makers of air hammers now do just that. It will be an intresting experiment. Let us know how it works!

    Our solution on my 350# Bement is to bolt two halves of the dovetail to a flat surface. This requires a LOT of heavy bolting. Although we can face the ends of the anvil we don't have a shaper or mill big enough to put in a doevtail in a 4,000 pound part!

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Tuesday, 04/06/99 14:53:39 GMT


    Hi to all. I'm just reaching completion of the Kinyon Air Hammer,and just have to say to anyone who is comptemplating building one of these hammers to go for it. It looks a lot more complicated than it actualy is.Thanks to all the good folk on the net, it was made even easier. Please feel free to contact me regarding questions anyone may have regarding the Kinyon Hammer. Not that I am an expert but I have gone through the learning curve. Once again thanks to all who have assisted me on this project. Mike the Israeli smith.

    mike -- manzie at internet-zahav.net.il - Tuesday, 04/06/99 18:49:39 GMT


    Mike,

    When you're finished, (or at any point along the way), how about some pictures of your hammer for the power hammer page? And put a good looking sabre next to it for the "Most Photogenic" contest! (grin)

    Jim (Paw Paw) Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Wednesday, 04/07/99 00:22:40 GMT


    Mike,

    I have to chime in with Jim....love to see some pictures of what you came up with. What control system did you use, the plans or the new modifications that came out subsequently?

    Bob -- robert_miller at mindlink.bc.ca - Wednesday, 04/07/99 03:30:50 GMT


    Need a used trip hammer ,Little Giant 25lb or 50lb , at a reasonable
    price.

    Dennis Gillihan -- cen58377 at centuryinter.net - Wednesday, 04/07/99 10:12:26 GMT


    Hi to all.As soon as I have the hammer painted & prettied up I will photograph it & then see if Jock will put it on the power hammer page. Right now I am playing about with valve set-up's. I am also playing about with some other refinements that were provided to me by
    a fellow smith. More about that at a later stage, as I would like to check with him as to how he would like to present his refinements; if at all. What I can say at this stage is that I'm realy impressed with the hammer. Till know I've been bashing on a piece of 6x6 as I haven't got my dies sorted out yet. Jock gave me an explanation on the Guru page as how to treat the H13 steel I'm using as dies, but it's a bit technical for me, so I'm trying to get input from other sources. Any ideas? This is not a critism of Jock, he gives me to much credit; not realizing I'm basicaly an idiot. take care. Mike the Israeli smith.

    mike -- manzie at internet-zahav.net.il - Wednesday, 04/07/99 17:32:42 GMT


    Good Day from Brisbane Australia. My name is Peter Denny and I am surching for a mad Blacksmith Mate of mine who wants to go to America to attend a Blacksmith Convention. And he need information. Can any of you blokes help out!!!

    Peter Denny -- prvdenny at powerup.com.au - Thursday, 04/08/99 09:55:54 GMT


    Good Day from Brisbane Australia. My name is Peter Denny and I am surching for a mad Blacksmith Mate of mine who wants to go to America to attend a Blacksmith Convention. And he need information. Can any of you blokes help out!!!

    Peter Denny -- prvdenny at powerup.com.au - Thursday, 04/08/99 09:57:36 GMT


    send me forging related letrature

    Moin Shekh -- excelltd at emirates.net.ae - Thursday, 04/08/99 12:57:53 GMT


    Peter Denny,

    I looked around here, could not find your mad Blacksmith mate, sorry.
    Which convention are you interested in and what type of info do you need?

    Marcus -- marcusiv at msn.com - Thursday, 04/08/99 15:34:03 GMT


    Peter,

    I'd suggest that your mad mate start planning for the ABANA conference next year in Flagstaff, AZ. More information will be posted here on anvilfire as it becomes available. Send me a Snail Mail address via e-mail, and I'll make sure you get copies of any paperwork that I recieve.

    Jim (Paw Paw) Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Thursday, 04/08/99 16:37:41 GMT


    Moin Shekh,

    If you are looking for forging information, go to the Archives at the bottom of this page, download them and print them out. Should provide plenty of reading and forging info. Also check the various booksellers on the net, search using Blacksmith(ing). You will find some good books on the subject there as well. If you are looking to have something created or built, then post a description and somebody will probably respond. Hope this helped.

    Marcus -- marcusiv at msn.com - Thursday, 04/08/99 18:19:46 GMT


    Ive just checked the log. Yunk-yard smash-in! You sure seem to have fun over there. From this we learn that the swedish blacksmiths might be excellent craftsmen but also to damn serious.

    No cherry-blossoms in the viking homelands (Eh, Bruce) but the snow has gone.

    Olle Andersson -- utgaardaolle at ebox.tninet.se - Thursday, 04/08/99 18:32:59 GMT


    Olle,

    Sometimes we all get too serious. But a little bit of humour, (even though it's sometimes pretty infantile) helps to lighten the load. And before somebody jumps on my case, I'm just as apt to be infantile as anybody else, and more so than some! (grin)

    Jim (Paw Paw) Wilson -- pawpaww at netunlimited.net - Thursday, 04/08/99 23:24:08 GMT


    Olle, WE TO have some that take themselves much too seriously. There are folks that insist that there is only one right way to hold a hammer and only one right way (their way) to most everything. They also insist on "traditional" methods and never consider that as long as there has been technological progress the methods have always changed.

    You REALLY have to be able to laugh at yourself (and the situation) when you use a computer guided laser to cut blanks from modern mill plate to make reproduction medieval armour! Why not? :)

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Friday, 04/09/99 02:52:03 GMT


    jock thats cheating !!! :) and i used to think using a cutting torch was cheating, laser cutting now where is the fun in that? next you'll be using robotic arms to hold the hot steel and hold it under your power hammer for you...

    lochinvar (allen) -- LochinvarSwords at webtv.net - Saturday, 04/10/99 03:58:25 GMT


    Jock, This brings up something I learned as a journeyman doing production piece work. The shop master would show me a finshed item and say, "I want the items to look like this". I would ask him how should I do it. He would reply, "I just showed you how, I want the pieces to look like this. I don't care if you have to use your teeth, I want the finshed items to look like this", as he held up the item.... Funny thing is I could never figure out how to forge with my teeth. Maybe I missed something in his directions? He was a fine teacher and I still do work for him today in my own shop.

    Bruce R. Wallace -- Walmetalwk at aol.com - Saturday, 04/10/99 03:59:33 GMT


    Jock,

    Hhmm... Robot arms to hold the metal. Let's talk about that at the Spring Fling. We might be able to come up with something to do that! Call it the Home Built Helper! (grin)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Saturday, 04/10/99 04:37:18 GMT


    Bragging time again!

    I was in one of the local antique stores today. He's got a WINTON anvil (I think that's the name on the side). Weighs about 150# He's asking $225 for it, which is way too high. Got a torch cut in the table, and the edges are pretty well chipped. Rings pretty good. I'll eventually dicker him down to a reasonable price or a trade of some kind.

    BUT, while I was there he remembered a framed print that he had in the back of the shop.

    Titled "The Blacksmith Shop" it's from an orignal oil painting by Rafael Beck, Copyright 1903 by the American Blacksmith Company, Buffalo, New York. Price tag on the print was $25, I talked him down to $20! (grin) Re-matted, glass cleaned, it now resides happily in my dining room, directly over my chair! Even momma approved!

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Saturday, 04/10/99 17:58:26 GMT


    Guru,

    Let's change that from Home Built Helper to Home Made Apprentice. HAM instead of HMO. (grin)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimted.net - Saturday, 04/10/99 18:00:21 GMT


    DURN IT!

    That's SUPPOSED to be HMA, not HAM.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Saturday, 04/10/99 18:01:15 GMT


    Guys, the answer for the contest name is obvious!

    BATTLE OF THE JUNKYARD DAWGS!

    Chris -- kilpe4 at gte.net - Saturday, 04/10/99 21:35:15 GMT


    Well. . . that's what I called it last year (with Dawg spelled Dog). But we will put it in the running.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Saturday, 04/10/99 22:44:51 GMT


    Robot Arm:

    Actually, between the time that Jock convinced me that even a Junk Yard Hammer was better than hiring a minimum wage neighbor, and the time I started planning the Renaissance JYH, I was doodling around with means to hold down the stock when hot chiseling, etc. Face it, most of what a treadle hammer does is keep a hand free to control top tools, spring fullers and such like. Weyger's multi-element hold- down is versatile, but slow. A foot activated hold down, such as in Richardson, is fast, but not versatile. The standard spring rapped tight in the pritchell hole is neither fast nor versatile. Some method that would quickly hold the stock firmly to the face, but not so rigid as to pop loose and let things fly would be a boon to the single handed shop. There's been more times in Blacksmithing when I've wished for a third arm than ever when sailing. (No crude jokes, please.) Hence a robot arm to hold the stock sounds a bit silly at first, but would actually be useful if it were cheap, versatile and reliable. (Just love that bright incandescent yellow metal summersaulting through the air up near my face!)

    Clear and cool on the banks of the lower Potomac. Had another good forging night, although the 45* air was enough to make my toes cramp.

    Visit your National Parks: www.nps.gov

    The Ultimate Rowing Machine: www.wam.umd.edu/~eowyn/Longship (cAsE sEnSiTiVe)

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at us.HSAnet.net - Sunday, 04/11/99 04:40:04 GMT


    Atli,

    I've got a two different hold downs that both work fairly well.

    One is a piece of chain with a lead casting on one end. Have a hook mounted on my anvil block, hook the chain to the hook, lay the chain across the anvil with the weight on the opposite side. Does fairly well. The other is a pair of vise grips that I modified. I put a hardie stake on them, cut one jaw off. Stake them down with a wedge. Adjust for the stock. Lay the stock on the anvil, close the vise grips. I'll bring those along for show and tell.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Sunday, 04/11/99 13:22:57 GMT


    regarduing hold downs i have a eccenter hold down (likte the ones used on welding fixtures) with a nut welded on which fits to a treaded 3/4" rod (welded to a sq tube forged to fit my last anvills hardy hole). I kan regulate the height to the nearest 1/4 of the rods pitch by simply rotating the sq tube (I have the rod go tru so that it kan be bolted on the underside). the bad part is that it tends to rotate (i drilled and taped the nut for a 5mm screw to counter it some)

    OErjan -- pokerbacken at angelfire.com - Monday, 04/12/99 08:12:18 GMT


    Jim, glad you changed it to HMA,not HAM otherwise us Israeli smiths
    would not have been able to use it.It not being kosher and all :-)
    Mike the Israeli smith

    mike -- manzie at internet-zahav.net.il - Monday, 04/12/99 10:37:20 GMT


    Mike,

    Well, that depends on whether you keep kosher or not, doesn't it? (grin) If you mix dairy and deli, it doesn't matter all that much!
    I've got a buddy that keeps pretty kosher, but he likes a piece of "pink salmon" for breakfast every now and then. :)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Monday, 04/12/99 13:38:31 GMT


    Jim, aah yes,rosy salmon, nothing wrong with that! Being playing about with the valve set-up on the Kinyon hammer, damn impressive. I've used a different configuration for the limit switch & reversed the 4way valve as recommended on the ABANA site. The control is great. If and when I get the hammer on the hammer page I will post the name & address of the guy who came up with the refined valve set-up. I dont want to give anything away as its not my design.

    mike -- manzie at internet-zahav.net.il - Monday, 04/12/99 21:46:22 GMT


    Atli,

    Re. Hold Downs: Have you looked into toggle clamps (AKA horizontal handle clamps)? These clamps lock into place with a pull of the hand and can exert up to 500 lb. holding force. In my 97 Grainger's catalog they begin on p.1861, in my 95 McMaster-Carr catalog they are on p.1801. These clamps need to be mounted but they can be mounted to a small plate that has a shaft to fit your hardy hole(just make sure the shaft is long enough to get a good bind in the hardy hole)or on an arm mounted to your anvil stand that swings into place. These clamps are great hold downs and with a little thought it probably will be real easy to come up with a mounting method.

    Marcus -- marcusiv at msn.com - Monday, 04/12/99 21:54:53 GMT


    Mike,

    (VBG) He was in my SF team. If we came to my place for breakfast, Sheri would ask him if he'd like some pink salmon with his eggs. He'd grin and say Yes!

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Monday, 04/12/99 22:37:36 GMT


    Hmmm, . . kosher power hammers???? Uh, can we get a Rabbi's opinion on DAWG?

    A good number of years ago my Dad came up with an accromym for a piece of machinery we were building.

    "Shielded Man Articulated Rotating Turret" or SMART device. It was actually a pretty dumb device and the irony was apparent to everyone. After that our rule was to never name ANYTHING "smart"

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Monday, 04/12/99 22:46:03 GMT


    Mike and Guru,

    Dawg isn't bad. A little stringy usually, unless it's a puppy. (grin)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Tuesday, 04/13/99 00:43:52 GMT


    Marcus: Re. Hold Downs: Have you looked into toggle clamps (AKA horizontal handle clamps)?

    I think these where the ones I was talking about in my earlyer posting but I am not certain.
    The one I am talking about have a toggle that clamps when you push the handle down and lock in that position. Am I on the right track Marcus? If not, what else do you mean??

    The one I have worked great,at least for me with my anvil, the hard part was removing/attaching it (form the hardy hole) as it was firmly locked in place with a nut on the underside (at least most of the time).
    The advantage is that they (the clamps) come in a huge number of different sizes and shapes and clamp/release really fast.
    Am I way of from what you need Atli?? If so in what way

    OErjan -- pokerbacken at angelfire.com - Tuesday, 04/13/99 06:07:50 GMT


    OErjan,

    Sounds like we are talking about the same type of clamp OErjan. They are quick to clamp and exert a lot of hold down. Rather than using the hardy hole suppose instead that you have a pipe fastened to your anvil stand. Sliding within the pipe is a solid piece of round stock, bent so it looks like an upside down L. Mount the clamp to the leg of the L. Then drill through both pipe and round so you can raise and swing the L into place and pin it with a bolt. This will allow to quickly swing the clamp into place and move it when done. If you drill another set of holes 90* to the first set, you can swing the bar parallel to the anvil face and use it as a support for those long pieces as well. Do you see what I mean? The pipe needs to be long enough to support the sideload that will be exerted by clamping and there will be some flex probably. Still, I think it will provide enough downforce to hold work in place and still be easy and quick to to use and remove. Atli, would this work for you? I have not tried it yet but since I have some toggle clamps this how I plan to use them when I get around to it.

    Marcus -- marcusiv at msn.com - Tuesday, 04/13/99 15:48:54 GMT


    Anybody got a quick way to twist square tube without it collapsing? Fill it with sand?

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Tuesday, 04/13/99 16:22:25 GMT


    Jim, find a round bar that fits, twist, then remove.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Tuesday, 04/13/99 18:09:51 GMT


    Jock,

    Good! Never thought of that! I'll try it this afternoon. I'm trying to finish a mono-pod for the video camera before Friday morning!

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Tuesday, 04/13/99 19:36:45 GMT


    Re: twisting square tube - Keep in mind that the round stock should be
    thinner than you think. Too many twists and it'll bind up. And keep an eye on the welded edge of the tube, it may open up if the twist gets too tight.
    Look forward to seeing you folks at Spring Fling.

    Chris -- worsley at erols.com - Wednesday, 04/14/99 00:01:00 GMT


    Chris & Jock,

    I tried using 3/4" round bar inside of 1" sqaure tube. Figured that would give it enough ease.

    Got it hot enough I think, but didn't have enough leverage to make the twist. I was making a mono pod to use with the viedo camera at Spring Fling. Is basically made, decorating will have to wait till I get back.

    See ya there! I'll be wearing either a Union Cavalry Kepi, or a Union Cavalry Hat. And I'll be the LITTLE guy standing next to the BIG guy! (grin)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Wednesday, 04/14/99 00:18:22 GMT


    come one come all to the new Central Virginia Blacksmith Guild web page. please come viset us.. www.cvbg.org see yall there.........

    bob fulghum -- jrf at hovac.com - Wednesday, 04/14/99 02:18:06 GMT


    Marcus,Atli: I think it would be better to use two 1" nuts (no not us;-) ) welded to an "L" shaped square bar (about 8-10"long on the vertical part) for stability they need to be slightly spaced (about 3-4")
    have that attached to a treaded 1" rod going into a tube, like you said, with a bolt going through to lock in place, sticking up to about 3" below the anvillface.
    That would make for great adjustment (one turn lowers or rises it 1x the pitch of the tread) and bee out of the way when removed (rather quickly too) either swing out of the way or remove bolt and remove it completly. what do you think??
    If you then weld the clamp to a 3"pice of sq (3/4 inner dia) tubing (mabe with a treaded hole for locking it in place) you can slide it along the sq rod and get a very versatile and fast clamp

    OErjan -- pokerbacken at angelfire.com - Wednesday, 04/14/99 06:24:21 GMT


    OK so maby better is a relative thing.
    my klamp should at least be very adjustable, hard-clamping and with fast clamp/release.
    I think it would be a little better to have a treaded bar with nuts (still not us) rather than drilled holes. drilled holes give just so much adjustment and rather crude at that, the holes need to be spaced some(say 1/8"minimum) and are say " them selves that makes 3/8" between adjustment steps minimum.
    A treaded 1"rod on the other hand gives about 1/8" adjustment per turn. (M24 3mm (metric 24 C) or 1.5mm, 2mm (metric 24 F). UNC 1"-8 (1/8")and UNF1"12 (1/12") what do you think??

    OErjan -- pokerbacken at angelfire.com - Wednesday, 04/14/99 08:16:06 GMT


    Gentlemen:

    Some great ideas for adjustable hold-downs. I'll have to chew it over a bit, but it goes a long way towards what I'm looking for.

    Thanks

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- bruce_blackistone at nps.gov - Wednesday, 04/14/99 12:37:17 GMT


    Atli,

    Don't do anything about a clamp until after Spring Fling. I'm bringing one along to show you. I think you'll like it.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Wednesday, 04/14/99 12:57:53 GMT


    OErjan,

    I like it, my idea was quick and easy, the refinements you added make for an clamp that is adjustable and more versatile. It is also just as easily removed. I have everything but the threaded rod and will start looking for that.

    Jim,
    No fair!! OErjan and I are separated from you and Atli by either a continent or an ocean and here you are going to SHOW Atli a clamping method. Least ya could do is post a description so OErjan and I can see what ya got...grin.
    A tarheel in an union cavalry kepi?!? Hmmmm, I thought the state motto was "First at Bethel, farthest at Gettysburg and last at Appomattox"...smiling.

    Marcus -- marcusiv at msn.com - Wednesday, 04/14/99 15:14:39 GMT


    Marcus,

    (grin) I've been accused of wearing a Sherman button to a Georgia picnic! I've ALWAYS been an agitator!

    If Atli likes my clamp, we'll try a post a picture in the news. Basically it's made from a welders vise grip. I cut off the pipe jaw, welded on a hardy shank and added a piece to the "wye" jaw. Drop the shank into the hardy hole, adjust for stock thickness, and push the locking lever down. It jams into the hardy hole and clamps the stock to the anvil. Lift up on the release lever, it lets go. Works slick.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Wednesday, 04/14/99 15:36:18 GMT


    come one come all to the new Central Virginia Blacksmith Guild web page. please come viset us.. www.cvbg.org see yall there.........

    bob fulghum -- jrf at hovac.com - Thursday, 04/15/99 01:54:57 GMT


    hi there - just setting up my forge and am looking for some info on sharpening stone chisels - any ideas?

    john linkel -- scotchpinefarm at bicnet.net - Friday, 04/16/99 02:11:42 GMT


    hi there - just setting up my forge and am looking for some info on sharpening stone chisels - any ideas?

    john linkel -- scotchpinefarm at bicnet.net - Friday, 04/16/99 02:13:42 GMT


    Truck's packed, projects finished (mostly), 01:00. Hope to see some of you at the BGoP Spring Fling.

    Hitting the rack.

    OErjan: haven't forgotten you, can't hit the pub in the a.m. or p.m. due to schedule lately. Have some notes on your wrought iron, but still puttering.

    Forge on!

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at us.HSAnet.net - Friday, 04/16/99 05:11:18 GMT


    Jock, Paw Paw and Atli,
    Good to have seen you guys at Spring Fling. Hope everyone had a good time. Now to unpack the truck and get back to work. Let's do it again next year.

    Chris -- worsley at erols.com - Monday, 04/19/99 12:14:04 GMT


    Chris,

    Likewise! Got ABANA 2000 next year too!

    All,

    What a blast. Got in about 2200 last night. Exausted. But had a great time. Got some GOOD vide. Anvil shoot especially good. Copy to the Guru next day or so. Hope he can extract some pictures for the news.

    Still sleepy, somebody snores!! (grin)

    Guru got pictures of THE clamp. Probably be in the news as soon as he has time.

    Jim

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Monday, 04/19/99 13:06:53 GMT


    All,

    OK, I'm mostly caught up on e-mail, and I got a story to tell on the guru! (grin)

    Guru was looking for an anvil for a farmer friend. Bout 100 pounds or so. Cheap. Fair to good condition. Looked all weekend.

    Sunday afternoon, he didn't go to the Iron in the Hat drawing, but I did. I won a "pig in a poke" grab bag, that I had put one ticket in.

    Talking to guru and Atli, I asked guru if he'd found an anvil. He answered no. I told him that I'd won one in the Iron in the Hat. He got an acquisitive look in his eye and the conversation went like this:

    guru; "How big?"

    Paw Paw; "Little less than a 100 pounds."

    Guru; "Want to sell it?"

    Paw Paw; "Sure, I don't need it."

    Guru; "What kind of shape is it in?"

    Paw Paw; "Brand new."

    Guru; "How much?"

    Paw Paw; "Welll... Since it's you... $40 - $50 bucks"

    Guru; "Really? Where is it?"

    At which point I pulled a little 3 1/2", maybe 4 oz. minature anvil out of my grab bag!

    You should have SEEN his face!!!!! (grin)

    Atli was standing there during the whole thing. He laughed, looked at me and said "Got him!"

    I won't repeat what guru said!!!!!!!!! (still laughing!)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Monday, 04/19/99 20:13:44 GMT


    Chris and the rest of the Cyber Crew:

    Good seeing some of y'all at the Spring Fling. Hope to meet a batch more. Someday might even catch up with our Swedish contingent (more research on the Viking age)! It's nice to put names and faces together.

    Still putting gear away on the banks of the lower Potomac. Feels closer to November than April. Had Jock & Co. camped out with me, the frost would have been on the Paw Paw. ;-) (Mumble, grumble, "motel rangers"...)

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at us.HSAnet.net - Tuesday, 04/20/99 02:54:48 GMT


    Atli,

    This "motel ranger" camped out during three consecutive training operations in Alaska. I've made my share of "yellow snow" and done my share of freezing. Try eight hours of directing traffic outside when the ambient air temperature is MINUS 70 degrees and with a "breeze" of 15 knots! Care to figure the wind chill factor for that? Been there, done that, froze my butt off! But no more, I'll let you "young bucks" take over and enjoy the motel room, thankyouverymuch! (grin)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Tuesday, 04/20/99 04:38:21 GMT


    Bruce, Jim, Jock,
    If you have any suggestions or thoughts on the Fling, send them along "off list". We want to make Spring Fling 8 even better that this years. Suggestions for interesting demonstrators are always welcome too. I've already put in a word about the frosty AMs....

    Chris -- worsley at erols.com - Tuesday, 04/20/99 12:12:48 GMT


    Paw Paw:

    I am speechless! When next an AK ranger or superintendent calls me, I'll be more appreciative. At least where I slept, it was quiet.

    Thanks for all the help and advice from both you and Jock, not to mention assistance on the heavy lifting.

    Drawing board work proceeds apace on the RJYH, and WBtS Blacksmithing information is still being gathered.

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- bruce_blackistone at nps.gov - Tuesday, 04/20/99 13:19:54 GMT


    Atli,

    and others,

    You may be interested in an article that I just finished reading. Some scientists believe that they have determined how iron was originally discovered.



    It seems that someone smelt it! (grin)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Tuesday, 04/20/99 14:11:53 GMT


    Chris,

    At this point, I can't think of a thing that would improve the Fling.
    I enjoyed myself thoroughly, in spite of the lack of sleep. I will add that watching Josh Greenwood demonstrate is a fascinating way to spend time. I really don't think you can do a whole lot about the frosty morning, without scheduling later in the year. And scheduling later in the year could/would lead to scheduling conflicts. Maybe a big morning bonfire.

    Atli,

    Assistance is called working together where I come from. What goes around, goes around.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Tuesday, 04/20/99 14:16:12 GMT


    Jim,

    The guru has pictures of THE clamp? THE clamp??? Hmmmm, sounds a little presumptuous to me...grin! Actually though, I would like to check it out. Reckon I am really going to have to look all of you up at ABANA 2000. Looking forward to it.

    Sounds like you and your Union cavalry kepi did not run into any of Jeb Stuart's boys...smile.

    Marcus -- marcusiv at msn.com - Tuesday, 04/20/99 23:09:16 GMT


    OK, OK, OK, I'll get the CLAMP picture posted!

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Tuesday, 04/20/99 23:15:09 GMT


    Marcus,

    Not presumptious, just confident! (grin)

    J. E. B. Stuart's boys head for the hills when they see the Yankee Calvary a'comin' at em! (grin) We got Winchester's!

    Jock, (VBG) I warned you!



    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Wednesday, 04/21/99 00:08:08 GMT


    OK, PawPaws little clamp is posted. . . :) (see 21st Century, or link from what's new or guru page). Also got a photo of him armed with said Winchester! Will post in NEWS.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Wednesday, 04/21/99 01:41:28 GMT


    Jock

    Someone has to say it, may as well be me.

    With a Slack-Tub-Pub why do you not have a V-Hammer INN? Just some place to go after we leave the pub, to sober up before we go home. (You can get intoxicated drinking from the fountain of knowledge that flows in the pub.) I'm sure some folks might prefer to "check in" to the "INN" before going to the pub, if that was OK with you.

    Besides, think how impressed everyone would be at the next get together when you said you had two " N's " and a pub. ;)

    A great site -- Thanks for all your efforts.

    Ntech -- Ntech at mindspring.com - Wednesday, 04/21/99 01:41:46 GMT


    dont know what the rules are, and i,m not looking for the guru, i am the guru!!!

    Ray -- swmetal at sosweb.net - Wednesday, 04/21/99 02:25:25 GMT


    As far as I know there's only one guru and he's forgot more then most of us will ever know. Just to say your the guru is one thing. You have to be able to back it up with you knowledge. Every one is welcome and it's easy to learn the rules. This is a public place and I wouldn't want anyone to talk foul to my wife of kids. If you can remember that, that's pretty much the rules. Oh yeah, one other thing no made up of fictitious names. You don't have to take my word for it. The official RULES are posted at the top of this page.

    Bruce R. Wallace -- Walmetalwk at aol.com - Wednesday, 04/21/99 20:29:17 GMT


    can anyone send me some pictures and information on making a power hammer for my home blacksmithing shop .......any thing as long as it works

    Jason Hampton -- jason.hampton at xtra.co.nz - Sunday, 04/25/99 08:40:37 GMT


    Ive been thinking. (Yes, I know, its painful.)As much as I like these pages they are wery much concerned with modern methods of blacksmithing. I do use modern equipment myself but is mostly making damascus and ancient weaponry. Do any of you know of a site where the PRACTICAL side of pre-historic and medievial blacksmithing is discussed? (By people who know what they are talking about. Archeologists and historians has a tendency to believe anything they read and nothing they are told)

    Olle Andersson -- utgaardaolle at ebox.tninet.se - Sunday, 04/25/99 09:46:54 GMT


    Olle, We have links to various sword, knife and armour sites. A new link to an old site "Arador" is supposed to be pretty good. However, I do not know a true historical/factual site. Bruce Blackistone is fairly well aquainted with historical methods. . .

    If you can find the "experts" I'll provide another forum. Let me know how you would like it laid out. We are looking at some new services and may be able to offer some intresting things in the near future.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Sunday, 04/25/99 16:07:28 GMT


    Hmm, Jock, the trouble here is that IM probably one of the experts! ( As I think Ive told you before, Im a professional archeologist and work at an industrial heritage museum including weapons technology.)This doesnt mean that I claim to know very much about anything, it just means that additional facts and knowledge becomes increasingly hard to find. I was hoping someone out there would accept the challenge and teach me a thing or two.

    Olle Andersson -- utgaardaolle at ebox.tninet.se - Wednesday, 04/28/99 21:11:49 GMT


    Do you know where I could obtain plans or information on antique mechanical foot operated jig saws?

    David -- Dbyers at BarTechnologies.com - Wednesday, 04/28/99 21:19:58 GMT


    Olle:

    When you find that someone, tip me off too. When it comes to research in the earlier periods, I think that neither of us would run out of fingers, much less toes, keeping count. I'll try to put together a list of my medieval/ancient metalworking book marks, and you can see if there are some you've missed. There are some good sources there, if I had the time to follow up.

    Back to the 40s F on the banks of the lower Potomac.

    Visit your National Parks: www.nps.gov

    Come help repair our longship: www.wam.umd.edu/~eowyn/Longship/ (cASE sENSITIVE)

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at us.HSAnet.net - Thursday, 04/29/99 03:16:16 GMT


    interesting stuff on oldtyme smiting at:
    http://www.archaeometallurgy.com/

    john neary -- jneary at roadrunner.com - Thursday, 04/29/99 11:53:47 GMT


    Good stuuf John! I'll put them on the links list. Now Olle, all you have to do is get all these folks that wrote the articles together! Or sugest that they sponsor a forum. I'll still do it if there is a need.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Thursday, 04/29/99 15:10:36 GMT


    i'm looking for local blacksmiths in the nyc, brooklyn vicinity. any suggestions? i have a master's from cranbrook, under Gary Griffin, i've been working as a welder at a scenic shop and doing freelance. email me , kristina , kkozak at mindspring.com

    kristina -- kkozak at mindspring.com - Sunday, 05/02/99 19:07:54 GMT


    I need an anvil, I want to relive the days of my youth in England when as a student in High School I did metal shop. Loved every minit of it.

    Martin Redman -- 42844 at msn.com - Sunday, 05/09/99 21:24:41 GMT


    Guru, and the honorable "Colour Guard",

    A name for the contest referenced at the top of the page.

    How about "ASH"?
    Anvilfire
    Scrap
    Hammer

    Ralph

    Ralph Douglass -- ralphd at jps.net - Monday, 05/10/99 14:29:57 GMT


    To Ollie and Bruce,
    I know this doesn't exactly answer your questions, but you should trying traveling to India and observing the smiths there. They deal with very harsh economic realities and also have the most primitive of shops, it might give you some insight into history.
    Mr Weygers travelled to Bali and found village smiths with primitive forges earning their living as tool makers.
    Oppi Untract travelled to Africa and India and found smiths still performing as the primary tool source for the area.
    Just a thought.

    Chris -- kilpe4 at gte.net - Friday, 05/14/99 14:42:57 GMT


    Ralph,

    Guru and I talked on the to Madison and back. He liked your suggestion for the Anvilfire Scrap Hammer, but has been too busy to respond. He'll do it soon, I'm sure.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Monday, 05/17/99 00:41:49 GMT


    Guru,
    How about 'ASH BASH' (Anvilfire/Scrap/Hammer)for the hammer competition at the conference?

    Ralph

    BTW, I have learned a lot just hanging out and listening and chatting with all on your site. Thanks!

    Ralph Douglass -- ralphd at jps.net - Monday, 05/17/99 14:43:42 GMT


    hey guys how are things wet in seattle

    grizz -- tilliegriz at aol.com - Tuesday, 05/18/99 04:32:58 GMT


    Ralph, I'm sorry I hadn't responded to your messages. Been up to my neck in aligators and have'nt been able to drain the swamp. . .

    ASH is a great arcromym but I'm not too keen on the "ashes" association. . . "ASH BASH" sort of works but still has the ashes. . . Keep trying. This is the kind of thing I'm lousy at and I need you guys to HELP!

    Glad you are picking up some good info here. I'm afraid I haven't had as much time as I'd like for adding new articles and editing the FAQs.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Tuesday, 05/18/99 12:26:26 GMT


    >ASH is a great arcromym but I'm not too keen on the "ashes" association. .

    Fair enough. Ok how about Millennium Bash?
    Or YIIK Smash? In honor of the year.

    Ralph

    Ralph Douglass -- ralphd at jps.net - Tuesday, 05/18/99 17:29:28 GMT


    Yiik?

    OK, here's an idea, The ARM hammer (Anvilfire Recycled Materials hammer). . . sorta like Arm & Hammer. . . What can you guys do with that? Its a competition but its not. . Its an event with minor contests. . A trial? The 2000 ARM Hammer Trials? Now if *I* work this out there won't be a prize. . . I know you guys can do better.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Wednesday, 05/19/99 03:13:14 GMT


    Gee, and I thought my WROUGHT BOTS and MAIDENS OF HAEPHESTUS suggestions were bad! (J/K)

    Chris -- kilpe4 at gte.net - Wednesday, 05/19/99 13:37:56 GMT


    OK!OK! It was supposed to be Y2K (YIIK) (smile)

    Hmmmm? ARM? How about "ARM by Fire"?
    "ARM's Way"?
    Gimmie a little bit!(smile)

    Ralph

    Ralph Douglass -- ralphd at jps.net - Wednesday, 05/19/99 14:29:25 GMT


    Looking for anvils, isn't everybody' good used...

    David Logan -- brodside at mssl.uswest.net - Wednesday, 05/19/99 16:18:41 GMT


    http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104519727 here is a anvil that is not found every day............

    bob -- jrf at hovac.com - Friday, 05/21/99 03:00:16 GMT


    Bob,

    Indeed that is an anvil that's rare. A mousehole, probably forged around 1825, and in durn near perfect condition. The price isn't bad either. Guru, take note.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Friday, 05/21/99 14:54:34 GMT


    You can count on the price on Ebay to got out of sight. Which they already have. Speaking of which, Jim, you need to get new glasses or have your head checked since the accident. Its NOT a mousehole. Read the ad!

    I couldn't use it if I bought it. Too pretty of an antique.

    Maidens of Haephestus??????? You guys are still come up with NAMES not a title for a competition. . .

    Jock D. -- webmater at anvilfire.com - Friday, 05/21/99 21:58:39 GMT


    Jock,

    Thought I saw Sheffield, England on the side. Now my week, I guess.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Saturday, 05/22/99 01:44:22 GMT


    Now I know it's NOT my week. (wry grin) Insurance Company is looking for a new truck body for me. Old one is totaled.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Saturday, 05/22/99 01:45:46 GMT


    ok ok it is my anvil.. come bid on it <:0) .. what a bargen so go look at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104519727 i would be happy for you to have a rare anvil. and so would my bank acount hehe........

    bob -- jrf at hovac.com - Sunday, 05/23/99 05:24:04 GMT


    ok ok it is my anvil.. come bid on it <:0) .. what a bargen so go look at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=104519727 i would be happy for you to have a rare anvil. and so would my bank acount hehe........

    bob -- jrf at hovac.com - Sunday, 05/23/99 05:24:19 GMT


    I am currently custom forging golf club heads. Anyone that has or knows of methods or trade secrets on this form of smithing please reply. Thank You, Par Forge Golf

    Greg Hubbard -- parforgglf at aol.com - Sunday, 05/23/99 18:35:47 GMT


    I Want To Be A Blacksmith!!!!!!!

    Raidan 5 -- Raidan 5 at aol.com - Monday, 05/24/99 13:12:50 GMT


    Greg, They wouldn't be "trade secrets" if we told you. I think the keys "secrets" are, Titanium, A BIG drop hammer (more power!), and lots of hype about how you designed them using secret military CADD software (or some other line of BS).

    Radian 5, lets see 5 x PI = 15.7079632679489661923132169163975. . . .

    Anyone CAN BE a blacksmith with a little study and the necessary tools. When I was demonstrating blacksmithing there was always some wiseacre that would say, "I could do THAT". I always wanted to snap back with, "Yeah, so where's your tools ____ ?"

    I've taught 8 year olds, I've taught women, I know a blacksmith that doesn't have use of his legs. . . Almost anyone can BE a blacksmith if they want to. See my article on Getting Started (main page and guru page).

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Monday, 05/24/99 21:51:49 GMT


    I would like to purchase a Yoder, or Pettingell deep throat power hammer.To be used in forming sheetmetal panels. Any leads would be appreciated. E-mail, or phone 360 736-6548

    Alyn Swedberg -- swedberg at localaccess.com - Tuesday, 05/25/99 21:15:31 GMT


    Looking for blacksmithing equipment have some to sell or trade, you can catch me on the slack tub between 9 and 10 weekdays

    Ray - Wednesday, 05/26/99 02:55:16 GMT


    Guru,
    How about "Desert Bash" for the Hammer competition?

    Ralph Douglass -- ralphd at jps.net - Friday, 05/28/99 20:14:48 GMT


    Looking for a 25# or 50# Little Giant in working condition. With or without motor. I line near the Jacksonvill, Florida area and am willing to travel up to 1000 miles. e-mail info or call (904)261-9537

    Randall Guess -- rguess at hotmail.com / rdguess at bellsouth.net - Saturday, 05/29/99 19:40:06 GMT


    Ralph, Hmmmmmmmmmm. . .

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Sunday, 05/30/99 02:12:53 GMT


    Hi, my name is motti, I am an Israeli blacksmith/welder with 8 years experience. I would be interested in finding a working/learning position with a very experienced smith in the New-York area to continue my training in our proffesion. If anyone is interested my resume,references & photo's of my work can be made available.
    Thanks Motti.

    motti silvio gruss -- manzie at internet-zahav.net.il - Sunday, 05/30/99 15:40:11 GMT


    Does anyone have any suggestions for things to keep in mind when selecting a plasma cutter? I see there are several that are rated up to 1/4" (I'm mostly interested in using it to cut sheet stock up to 10 ga). What's the difference between 90 and 70 torches?

    Mark Layton -- layton at awi-smi.com - Tuesday, 06/01/99 17:19:45 GMT


    have 2 hammers need to sale :nazel 6b self contained 40 hp and niles 1000lb not self contained
    does any one want or know where I can sell them. both run excellent e-mail any questions

    andrew williamson -- metal8481 at aol.com - Wednesday, 06/02/99 21:36:56 GMT


    G'Day all,

    I'm looking for some info. on becoming a blacksmith and this looks like the place to ask. If you have time to spare could you mail me at mikecottrell at home.com ? Thanks

    Mike Cottrell -- mikecottrell at home.com - Wednesday, 06/02/99 22:14:32 GMT


    need help with identification of old forge. can anyone help?

    jim -- jeanc at huntnet.net - Friday, 06/04/99 03:07:26 GMT



    I just bought a 65kg hunk of "tool steel" to go on top of the engineblock on the power hammer Im building .Is this a waste of this kinda metal? ,I guess its just high carbon ,bout 400 x400 x30 only cost me 10 dollars aussie

    Can anyone tell me the outcome of the debate over shockabsorbers as a linkage on the junkyard hammer Ive got 2 good shocks and am keen to use them but....
    I loose sleep over this , I hate wasting time building stuff that dont work!
    Im goint to build mine according to the new plan I saw here that had the differential below the anvil and was thinking about using 2 car seat runners as guides what do you think?
    Do the dies on this kind of linkage loose contact with the work after a few hits as I can imagine or do they open up enough on each "up" stroke to be ready for the next hit.

    s.sugrue -- sjs at chariot.net.au - Friday, 06/04/99 05:13:58 GMT


    RAY NAGER AND PARTNER HAVE OPENED A NEW 10,000 SQ FT FACILITY IN THE POMPANO BEACH FL AREA. A LARGE MOVE FROM THIER FORMER LOCATION IN TAMPA, FL.
    THE COMPANY IS CALLED METALSMITHS, INC. AND WE ARE DEDICATED TO THE OLD WORLD CRAFT. THEREFORE, WE WILL BE STARTING BLACKSMITHING CLASSES IN SEPTEMBER FOR THE NOVICE AND ADVANCED BOTH. FOR ANY INFORMATION PLEASE CALL OR EMAIL US.
    1-954-545-0088 THANK YOU AND HAPPY HAMMERING.

    andrew williamson -- metal8481 at aol.com - Friday, 06/04/99 16:01:49 GMT


    Want to learn Old Ways of Blacksmithing.From set to to Sword Making and Ironwork to Armour....can Ya Help?

    MacKinnon -- WarArmour at aol.com - Friday, 06/04/99 18:46:04 GMT


    S.Sugrue, There are pros and cons to the shock absorber linkage. On the pro side it is relatively easy to build. On the con side it doesn't hit very hard and cannot be run fast. Besides being a simple linkage it compensates for large changes in work height without any adjustments. It works better for detailed work like chasing than it does for heavy drawing.

    I'm looking at a modification using a flat spring about 14" (360mm) wide with the shocks attached to the ends in a triangle. The middle of the spring would be clamped to the top of the ram. The spring would produce the extra travel that produces a harder hit while the shocks still do their compensation thing. IF this doesn't work the shocks can be replaced with solid links and the hammer will still have been worth building. The mods are not a big job but until I have significant R&D time I won't be able to get to it and report on the results.

    One of the most complex parts of constructing a mechanical hammer is compensating for changing tool and work height (beyond the range of the toggle mechanism's limited range). The shock absorber is not the best solution but it has been proven to work.

    The car seat runners are generaly not very heavy OR very tight as guides go. They are designed for static use with occasional adjustment. If you could arrange two sets on either side (4 guides) it might hold up. Its hard to say without seeing the parts.

    If you want to build a hammer that requires little experimentation to work, build an air hammer.

    Jock Dempsey -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Friday, 06/04/99 23:43:11 GMT


    S.Sugrue, That piece of tool steel DOES seem like a waste but on the other hand it is difficult to make little more usable pieces out of a big hunk like that. In the user built hammer buisness you use what you can find.

    Jock Dempsey -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Friday, 06/04/99 23:47:21 GMT


    MacKinnon, There is lots of help on this page. Take time to explore it and read the article Getting Started and the book reviews. We will certainly try to answer any specific questions you have.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Friday, 06/04/99 23:49:58 GMT


    Hi! Nowadays I spend a good amount of time while I fill small orders for Ironwork wondering how it might be to have more work and possibly stay in my shop on a regular basis! Possible marketing strategies and promoting the craft on a full time scale instead of a word of mouth approach! Question (for anyone who might be interested in forging iron on a buisness basis) If I were to go to 1 dozen blacksmith shops with the intentions of getting bids for the same piece of work, how much per hour would the capable blacksmith charge? Anyone wishing to talk buisness? Tim

    Tim -- ccforge at alaska.net - Saturday, 06/05/99 16:54:22 GMT


    Hi! I have a question... I have a Little Giant power hammer that my great uncles used to make plow shears it still works great the original electric motor still runs. About what would it be worth??
    I forgot to mention its a 25# hammer.

    bobcat -- bobcat at bemail.com - Sunday, 06/06/99 03:21:26 GMT


    Tim,

    That "going rate" will vary a good deal, depending on location. Here in North Carolina, most of us try to charge around $30 an hour give or take a couple of dollars. I would expect the rate in larger metropolitan areas to be higher. I would expect the rate to be even higher in Alaska.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Sunday, 06/06/99 11:25:16 GMT


    I might start asking all my questions here instead of

    s.sugrue -- sjs at chariot.net.au - Sunday, 06/06/99 13:41:09 GMT


    hey I lost most of my post
    here it is again , i was trying to say u guys do a good job of replying to posts , get more info here than "theforge" mailing list.
    3 q's? if I may
    Do I need a rubber "mat" under my power hammer base will be railway sleepers and mabey someconcrete floor is concrete
    Does shape of the mass used as anvil matter? Im using a large pice of plate as top over an engine block its 450x450x35 is this too spread out? cut in half mabey?
    what about air gaps between the two I will braze them together and both surfaces are machined but still see air gaps will this affect the "reboundability"?
    thanks for your time

    s.sugrue -- sjs at chariot.net.au - Sunday, 06/06/99 15:04:40 GMT


    hey I lost most of my post
    here it is again , i was trying to say u guys do a good job of replying to posts , get more info here than "theforge" mailing list.
    3 q's? if I may
    Do I need a rubber "mat" under my power hammer base will be railway sleepers and mabey someconcrete floor is concrete
    Does shape of the mass used as anvil matter? Im using a large pice of plate as top over an engine block its 450x450x35 is this too spread out? cut in half mabey?
    what about air gaps between the two I will braze them together and both surfaces are machined but still see air gaps will this affect the "reboundability"?
    thanks for your time

    s.sugrue -- sjs at chariot.net.au - Sunday, 06/06/99 15:07:41 GMT


    -------------------------
    CAMP FENBY, Friday through Sunday -- June 25-27

    This is a somewhat laid-back event, with generalized instruction for beginners and some specific and experimental work in medieval arts and crafts. Sort of an expanded hammer-in. Most people camp on-site or stay in some of the nearby (by our standard) motels.

    If youre in the Mid-Atlantic area that weekend, please feel free to join in and participate. An abbreviated announcement follows. Please e-mail Thyri (see end of posting) for more information, and let her know you spotted it at ANVILFIRE! . Hope to see some of you there.

    Atli

    ---------------------------

    Camp Fenby -- sponsored by the Longship Company -- is taking place on
    Oakley Farm (Atli's place) on Thursday, June 24 (for setup only) through the early afternoon on Sunday, June 27. This annual event consists of outdoor craft workshops taught by people interested in crafts that originated in the Middle Ages. Medieval clothes are not required -- it tends to get quite hot! Atli traditionally holds several sessions teaching blacksmithing in his forge and will probably have a second portable forge set up this year with another teacher.

    There is a nominal site fee ($10/person or $15/family) to cover the cost of the port-a-jons. People may camp on site, near the barns or in the woods.

    There are a lot of classes being scheduled this year:

    * Pit-fired pottery (pottery must be made in advance and well dried) Friday 11-4
    * Soapstone carving Friday 11-12:30
    -- MUST PRE-REGISTER BY SENDING $10 BY 6/12/99 TO JAN DERRY
    * Anglo Saxon Wrist Clasps Friday 2-4
    * Norse Garb lecture Friday 4-6
    * Silversmithing Friday 4-6, Saturday 2-4
    * Basic and Experimental Nalbinding Friday 2-4, Saturday 10-12
    * Basic tablet-weaving Saturday 10-12
    * Blacksmithing Various
    * Small Loom Workshop Saturday 2-4
    -- MUST PRE-REGISTER BY SENDING $5 BY 6/12/99 TO JAN DERRY
    * Medieval woodworking with Viking-style tools in combination with an
    attempt to build an early loom Saturday 4-6
    * Experiment on Period Finishes (milk paint on tent canvas) Saturday 2-4
    * Glass beadmaking -- open torch Saturday 10-12, 4-6
    * Basketweaving Saturday 4-6
    * Ship Experiment -- riveting boards with copper rivets Saturday 10-12, Sunday 10-12
    * Whittling -- carving wood/bone in the round Sunday 10-12
    * Basic Stitches of the Bayeax Tapestry Sunday 10-12

    Teachers may charge a small supplies fee.

    By popular request, there will also be a sing-along near the forge on
    Saturday night (and possibly Friday night too). And there will be a crab feast for those interested in stuffing themselves with crustaceans (costs extra).


    Registration
    This is a non-public official event in which non-Marklanders are also
    welcome to attend and participate.

    Please contact Thyri (Terese Scott) at 703-359-7081 or 12313 Sleepy Lake Ct, Fairfax, VA 22033 or thyri at pressroom.com for more information. She will mail out flyers, maps, class schedule, and other info to those who contact her. She would also like to register people in advance, so the teachers know how many to expect.


    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at us.HSAnet.net - Monday, 06/07/99 02:49:43 GMT


    15 YEAR OLD BEGINNER NEEDS TOOLS.

    Can anyone give advice on where to find good used tools at a reasonable price?

    William Hopkins -- raykeckler at juno.com - Tuesday, 06/08/99 16:59:16 GMT


    15 YEAR OLD BEGINNER NEEDS TOOLS.

    Can anyone give advice on where to find good used tools at a reasonable price?

    William Hopkins -- raykeckler at juno.com - Tuesday, 06/08/99 16:59:56 GMT


    My favorite sources are flea markets and the lower end antique stores. Also, check with friends, relatives, and nearby farms or ranches. Some of these have the old equipment, but find it faster to call the farrier or haul out the arc welder.

    Good luck.

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- bruce_blackistone at nps.gov - Tuesday, 06/08/99 18:05:02 GMT


    Tim, Turn the question around. not how much can I charge, but how much do I need to make? Take your costs; fuel,metal, rent even from yourself, power, a percentage to amertize your tool investment and to create the capital to buy or build more(after all if your not here for the tools and the chance to use them why are you here?),and anything else you regullery buy for your shop. Add to that number what you need to earn to live at the level your wife will accept(this one took me a long time to learn and cost me more than one wife). add the two together for an annual number divide by the amount of hours you want to work a day and the number of days you want to work a year and you have your hourly cost of shop time.
    Now you have to sell the stuf. If you go to a craft show double the price of your goods based on your shop rate, you need to get paid for selling. Its expensive to do, it takes time, you could be forging, and it allows you to sell wholesale and still make your shop rate. No retailer will buy anything from you that he has to sell for twice the amount you are selling it for at shows.
    After a while you will know what you want to make and what people like to buy try to find a common ground. remember this is too much like hard work not to have fun!

    Toby Hickman -- waylan at sprynet.com - Saturday, 06/12/99 15:44:41 GMT


    Tim, Turn the question around. not how much can I charge, but how much do I need to make? Take your costs; fuel,metal, rent even from yourself, power, a percentage to amertize your tool investment and to create the capital to buy or build more(after all if your not here for the tools and the chance to use them why are you here?),and anything else you regullery buy for your shop. Add to that number what you need to earn to live at the level your wife will accept(this one took me a long time to learn and cost me more than one wife). add the two together for an annual number divide by the amount of hours you want to work a day and the number of days you want to work a year and you have your hourly cost of shop time.
    Now you have to sell the stuf. If you go to a craft show double the price of your goods based on your shop rate, you need to get paid for selling. Its expensive to do, it takes time, you could be forging, and it allows you to sell wholesale and still make your shop rate. No retailer will buy anything from you that he has to sell for twice the amount you are selling it for at shows.
    After a while you will know what you want to make and what people like to buy try to find a common ground. remember this is too much like hard work not to have fun!

    Toby Hickman -- waylan at sprynet.com - Saturday, 06/12/99 15:45:08 GMT


    Jock, sorry for the double post. I just did what bill gates told me to do

    Toby Hickman -- waylan at sprynet.com - Saturday, 06/12/99 15:47:03 GMT


    S. Sugrue, you will get faster responses on the the "guru" page. I only check here once a week or so but I check the guru page several times a day when I can.

    If you hammer is on a heavy wood base it shouldn't need a rubber mat.

    Anvil shape does matter. Your plate would be more efficient turned on edge than laying flat. . . The inefficiency of a "stacked" anvil is just as bad as the spread out plate. However compactness still has several advantages. For one it IS compact, takes less space.

    I would half the plate and then half one piece again to make three pieces. The big piece would be a load distribution plate and the other two are plenty big 8.5" x 8.5" (225 x 225mm). Air gaps do reduce the rebound considerably so finish the piece the best you can and then weld them toether.

    Jock D. -- webmaster at anvilfire.com - Saturday, 06/12/99 20:32:10 GMT


    Tim,

    Read Toby's post three times, then print it out and memorize it!

    Toby,

    VERY good analysis! Well presented, too. Worth posting twice! (grin)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Saturday, 06/12/99 21:37:05 GMT


    25 years in the learning, Jim. I hope this new generation of pros learns it faster than I did.

    Toby Hickman -- waylan at sprynet.com - Sunday, 06/13/99 03:47:12 GMT


    Toby,

    Took longer for me, but didn't cost me any wives. Fortunately, I married a woman of almost unlimited patience.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Sunday, 06/13/99 12:48:42 GMT


    OK guys, research time.

    I've found a gorgeous Buffalo Forge. It's complete, hand crank blower than can be valved to create a forced draft chimney or to supply air blast to the fire, or both. Has a side mount hood with stove pipe adapter. About 36" X 36". Cast iron table, square cast iron firepot, table has a slack tub cast into it, and also has a second slack tub hanging on the side opposite the hood. (probably a brine tub) Cast into the hood are the words, "Buffalo Forge Co." "Buffalo, NY" and "number 8660" The number (8660) may not be accurate, it's hard to read. But I'm fairly certain of the first two numbers.

    Obviously, it's a Buffalo forge. But about how old is it? About how much is it worth? The blower is frozen, but I think some WD49 and some patience can cure that. The cast iron is in suprisingly good condition. Some rust, of course, but seems to all be sound. If I buy it (and I probably will) will clean first, possibly sandblast, and put it back to work.

    Any ideas where I can find out more about it?

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Monday, 06/14/99 00:07:54 GMT


    Does anyone out there have aline on a Nazel 2B hammer for parts. I need the anvil and cell block in particular. Thanks

    T. J. Marrone -- tjmarrone at aol.com - Wednesday, 06/16/99 04:48:53 GMT


    Does anyone out there have aline on a Nazel 2B hammer for parts. I need the anvil and cell block in particular. Thanks

    T. J. Marrone -- tjmarrone at aol.com - Wednesday, 06/16/99 04:49:16 GMT


    I looking for blacksmith/metalworking classes in the Los Angeles area. Anyone know of any?

    Thanks, Deborah
    djewoods at pacificnet.net

    Deborah Woods -- djewoods at pacificnet.net - Thursday, 06/17/99 21:23:49 GMT


    Deborah, try http://www.proactivedirect.com/cba/cba2d.html for the schedual and locations of classes offered by the California Blacksmith Association we have classes that progress from absoloute novis to advanced intermediate. After that you are on your own. also available on that web site is a schedual of CBA events around the state. Toby

    Toby Hickman -- waylan at sprynet.com - Friday, 06/18/99 05:58:51 GMT


    Less than a week 'till Camp Fenby. Se posting of Monday, 06/07/99 02:49:43 GMT, above.

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at us.HSAnet.net - Sunday, 06/20/99 03:20:13 GMT


    I haven't posted in while but i finally have something to say. As a resident of minnesota I went to theme park in Chisholm, Minnesota a couple of weeks ago. The Park is called Iron World. Why not? It's right in the heart of the iron range. They have resident blacksmith there. I introduced myself as a beginner and we talked and he passed on lot of very helpful information. We talked about tools and he said, like many others, they are where you find them. Always keep looking and talk to anyone you know who might know where some might be. This group includes friends, relatives (you notice that these are seperate groups,) professional contacts, (even your lawyer may have knowledge of an estate with tools,) the place you get your car serviced.....the list is endless. Heck I even have my barber looking for me. Finders fee involved in this one.
    I went to a farm auction this last weekend and lo' and behold a post drill, dusty and stiff but complete and little cleaning and lubrication and it's back in service for $2.00. The was a post vice there too but when one of the kids who grew up there and now lives in California was biding against me I let it go. He bought it for $25.00. We were later talking and I told him I was a prcticing the craft. He Asked me If I would keep it for him for two to three years...
    It seems that Blacksmithing brings together some of the best people.
    jim

    Minnesota Jim -- jumn at brainerd.net - Tuesday, 06/22/99 18:47:29 GMT


    Does anyone know who made anvils with a trdemark composed of an arm swinging a hammer, very similar to the logo on arm & hammer baking soda? Thanks.

    Bob Rackers -- rackersr at one.net - Tuesday, 06/22/99 22:44:49 GMT


    Bob Rackers,

    The Arm & Hammer anvil was produced by the Columbus Anvil and Forging Company of Columbus, Ohio, between the years 1900 and 1950.

    Richard Postman, author of ANVILS IN AMERICA, the only book on anvils that has ever been written considers the Arm & Hammer to be "undoubtedly one of the finest wrought anvils ever manufactured anywhere."

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Tuesday, 06/22/99 23:44:10 GMT


    If anyone could point me in the direction of information on forging leghold traps it would be greatly appreciated. I would like to try smithing some traps for some buckskinner friends of mine. Thanks.

    Matt -- mneuman at libby.org - Wednesday, 06/23/99 04:57:39 GMT


    Matt,

    Depending on where you are located, the easies way might be to go to a country hardward store and buy a small one. A number three animal trap would be a good size, and it should cost less than $20. All leg hold traps are made in basically the same way. There are some variations of how the two pieces that do the actual holding are shaped, but not much. All the ones larger than a number 5, the holding pieces have teeth cut into them, before that those pieces are smooth.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Wednesday, 06/23/99 14:19:06 GMT


    Matt,

    BTW, if you can't find a #3 animal trap, let me know. I think I've still got a couple from my younger days! (grin)

    The first person that says ANYTHING about antiques is in SERIOUS trouble! (nother grin)

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Wednesday, 06/23/99 18:58:54 GMT


    Paw Paw (big evil grin) do you remember how much a possem hide would bring? But as far as making a leg hold trap, on the springs ,would you use a mediun carbon steel, and then heat treat it, or how would you go about it ?

    Toby -- kiamichi at msn.com - Wednesday, 06/23/99 21:03:23 GMT


    Toby,

    About 50 cents, depending on the time of year. (grin)

    I'd use regular mild steel, a 1018 or 1020. After the forging process was complete. I'd heat treat them using Rob Gunter's Soap Quench. It's sometimes called Super Quench. I'd do the jaws the same way, particularly if they were toothed jaws. And before someone asks, the formulat for Rob's soap quench is:


    ROB GUNTER'S SOAP QUENCH

    4 1/2 gallons water
    5 lbs. salt
    32 oz. Dawn dish soap (blue)
    8 oz. Shaklee Basic I

    Stir before each use

    For those who haven't heard of this, here is a little about it. We all
    know that mild steel is not supposed to harden because of low carbon
    content. A cold chisel made out of mild steel heated to a dull red and
    quenched in the soap solution will cut a piece from the same stock you
    made it from. Don't get me wrong, it will not make tool steel from mild steel, but in those cases where you don't want to use tool steel and wish mild steel was just a little harder, it works fine. Someone a while back was talking about fire strikers-also RR spike knives-this quench works well. I use the spikes marked HC (high carbon) for knives-the others for letter openers.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Wednesday, 06/23/99 22:57:45 GMT


    i have an anvil for sale it is in very good shape its weight is 535 lbs it is a horned anvile i live in south east texas

    clw -- xelma at aol.com - Thursday, 06/24/99 03:30:40 GMT


    anybody uses, makes, sells a leghold trap ought in all good conscience try it out on some protuberant part of his /her own bod first to see if it works humanely.

    john neary -- jneary at roadrunner.com - Thursday, 06/24/99 13:24:07 GMT


    PawPaw,

    Most antiques are younger than you! But we all knew that anyhow.(grin)

    Ralph Douglass

    Ralph -- ralphd at jps.net - Thursday, 06/24/99 13:58:39 GMT


    Toby, PawPaw re traps
    The traps that we make at Fort Vancouver NHS use med to hi carbon steel for the springs.
    Also the traps as made in the 1840 we fairly complex. 3 forge welds. The base was welded together. Then the jaw post have a weld in them.
    If you are interested in the plans I will see if I can find them the next time I am at the fort.

    Ralph

    Ralph D. -- ralphd at jps.net - Thursday, 06/24/99 14:04:02 GMT


    Ralph,

    God'll get you for that! Assuming I don't get to you first!
    BTW, I'd like to see the plans

    All,

    When your ANVIL'S RING comes in this month, check out the full page ad on page 3. It's about a web site we're all familiar with. And then on page 13, there's an event listed as one of the ABANA2000 events that we've been reading about in the Virtual Hammerin.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Friday, 06/25/99 00:31:54 GMT


    Anybody out there able to help me with a problem I've come up with after making curtain rods and rings for an Arts and Crafts Manor. They were first hammered and then,to acheive a warmer, more antiqued patina I brushed on a solution used for aging gun barrels that has nitric acid and sodium phosphate while still warm. Then finally I waxed them. All looked great until they started rusting and flaking badly. I then heated them all up til red and wired brushed them and then waxed them thinking this would solve the rust problem.....but alas the rust is creeping through. Any ideas, suggestions, solutions would be much appreciated. Thnaks

    Lou Mccutcheon -- McWall at aol.com - Friday, 06/25/99 06:20:31 GMT


    Lou,
    I may be WAY off base hear but if you used an acid did you nuetralize it afterwards? It seems as if you don't it will keep working(slowly perhaps)


    Ralph Douglass

    Ralph D -- ralphd at jps.net - Friday, 06/25/99 06:24:52 GMT


    Lou,

    As Ralph mentioned, if you didn't neutralize, that' probably the problem. Try using a fairly strong solution of Baking Soda and water.

    Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at netunlimited.net - Friday, 06/25/99 14:14:18 GMT


    Hi all,
    I'm new to smithing. Trying to put together my tools. Does anyone know of a 25# little giant for sale in the MN. area?

    Bob

    Bob -- randd at primenet.com - Tuesday, 06/29/99 00:44:03 GMT


    So about a year and a half ago, I bought over 300 Heller Bros. brand new hot cut hardies made for the US Army in the 40s. I've been selling them slowly but steadily at California meetings, via the web and by mail. I'm down to about 70 now and not a complaint yet. If you want one or more, send me $24 ($20 for the hardy, $4 for Priority Mail) and I'll send them out the morning after I get your check. Andy Morrison, 2197 N. Allen Ave., Altadena, CA 91001 (626-798-6588). When they're gone, they're gone.

    andy -- anjmorrison at earthlink.net - Tuesday, 06/29/99 16:51:08 GMT


    So about a year and a half ago, I bought over 300 Heller Bros. brand new hot cut hardies made for the US Army in the 40s. I've been selling them slowly but steadily at California meetings, via the web and by mail. I'm down to about 70 now and not a complaint yet. If you want one or more, send me $24 ($20 for the hardy, $4 for Priority Mail) and I'll send them out the morning after I get your check. Andy Morrison, 2197 N. Allen Ave., Altadena, CA 91001 (626-798-6588). When they're gone, they're gone.

    andy -- anjmorrison at earthlink.net - Tuesday, 06/29/99 17:04:36 GMT


    Sorry about the repeat message. I'll get the hang of this infernal machine yet

    andy -- anjmorrison at earthlink.net - Tuesday, 06/29/99 17:06:54 GMT


    Andy:

    What's the shank size? (Once saw a hardy mounted shank side up in a display case at a National Scenic River. Wonder if they've corrected it for me?)

    Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at us.HSAnet.net - Tuesday, 06/29/99 18:29:28 GMT


    Bruce,

    They're 3/4" shank. I have a 7/8" hardy hole. I use a split piece of thinwall square tubing with the top edges bent over for tabs as a shim. Fits perfectly.

    Andy

    Andy -- anjmorrison at earthlink.net - Tuesday, 06/29/99 22:06:05 GMT



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