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June 2012 Archive

Gluing Rubber to Steel: A bit off the topic of blacksmithing, but with the collective knowledge in this group I can't think of anyone better to ask. I have to get a new tranny mount put in my truck, and my mechanic and I were looking at the new one wondering how they bonded the rubber to the steel. I figured magic...
- JimG - Thursday, 05/31/12 13:38:34 EDT

Motor, Trans and Vibration Mounts:
I do not know the exact process but I think the rubber is molded onto clean and prepped metal. The bond is very strong but many of these devices have mechanical anchors in them that the rubber is molded around.

I've always been amazed at their strength.
- guru - Thursday, 05/31/12 20:27:32 EDT

molded rubber?: I have somehow acquired what appears to be a two headed, small sledge hammer. Each head terminates in a centrally placed, upside down, truncated cone integral with the forging. The greater diameter of the cone is maybe half the diameter of the head below it; ie., immediately either side of the eye. The only thing we could figure is this was a rubber mallet that lost its rubber.
- Frank Turley - Friday, 06/01/12 20:05:14 EDT

Motor Mounts: I believe they are vulcanised to the steel, that is the uncured rubber is bonded to the steel when it cures under heat and pressure. I don't know if there is any special preparation to get it to bond.

Some, like My 1965 Falcon 6 cylinder were just plates with the rubber between them. On some others the steel parts interlock so they stay together if the bond fails.
- Dave Boyer - Saturday, 06/02/12 00:15:24 EDT

Just for the heck of it, I looked for patents on bonding rubber to steel. They're a lot of them; they seem to focus on the use of various adhesives, usually before vulcanization. Patent No. 4211824 has a reasonable description of some of the processes.

(There are a lot of ways to find patents online. I like the Google patent search. If you click on "more," then "even more," the link's toward the bottom of the left-hand column.)
Mike BR - Saturday, 06/02/12 19:28:23 EDT

Rubber bonding to steel:
The patents focus on different methods of adhesion but the basics are plating, either with copper or any one of dozens of copper antimony alloys. Then there is an intermediate binder which covers the plating (the surface preparation I mentioned), then the rubber is molded and vulcanized - binding the whole.

All the variations in patents are looking for either a better or cheaper bond. OR as is often the case in the patent hunt, to try to cover every possible method, good or bad to keep competition out of the market. In chemistry this is much more complicated than in mechanics. There are often more possibilities that are very close to producing near identical results.
- guru - Sunday, 06/03/12 13:23:30 EDT

Lord corporation was one of the early leaders in the rubber motor mounts, needed badly to stop vibration in aircraft engines from shaking lightly built aircraft structures to failure, Hence the "Lord Mount" still popular today. And they are leaders in bonding rubbers and plastic to steel still.
That black molding that is around the door frame of cars or that covers the roof to side wall join on Honda's? Plastic bonded very well to stainless steel, a real trick
ptree - Sunday, 06/03/12 17:34:00 EDT

Thanks Guys!
- JimG - Monday, 06/04/12 10:37:36 EDT

Redressing an anvil: Hey guys,

I have been blacksmithing for years with an old 150+ lb anvil i liberated from the dumpster of my old HS (like i said, a while ago). When i say that it is VERY beat up, i mean it. The corners have all chipped off and the face has been beat to hell. So beat to hell, that there is not a flat section of it. While at school, i used a flat chunk of hot-rolled pig iron, which worked well as long as the steel was nice and hot (and i didnt hit it with the hammer)I have recently relocated and have a choice: Redress the beast i used in high school, or buy a new one. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know. I can provide pictures if need be.
- Dan Bourlotos - Monday, 06/04/12 20:24:26 EDT

Dan: I would grind the top of the beat up anvil carefully with a saucer wheel or cup wheel on an angle grinder, then finish with a portable belt sander like used for wood working. Get ALL the sawdust out of it first, and use the blue Zircona belts, starting about 40 grit and working Your way up. Don't try to make it perfect, just get it good enough to use with as little material removal as possible. Smooth what is left of the edges to a radius with the belt sander when You have the top finished.

When using the belt sander, hold it 45 degrees from the length of the anvil face, and when the grind lines all go this way, shift to 45 degrees the other way. This keeps it cutting as fast as possible, and helps flatten it out.

If You have access to welding equipment, You could fill some of the worst areas with weld, but if not done properly welding can do more harm than good. Weld repairs are a whole other ball of wax, some feel that it is better to leave well enough alone, others have done many with a good ammount of success.
- Dave Boyer - Monday, 06/04/12 21:53:11 EDT

Anvil Faces: Two things to remember:

1) An anvil is NOT a reference flat. If you hammered on the shop's precision flat you would be fired. A slightly swayed anvil is better than a flat or crowned one for straightening work. And YES, anvils came with crowned faces at one point to increase their life. Peter Wright did this toward the end.

If you need a reference flat there are lots of odd machine tables and beds available that are almost as good as a precision flat that can had pretty cheap.

2) Anvil corners should NOT be sharp. A significantly rounded edge is better for forge work and is less likely to chip in the future.

Keeping these two things in mind you can often dress a rough anvil to fairly good working condition.

If the anvil can not be made usable then its possible to weld up the face but its the last thing I recommend. How this is done depends on the type of anvil.
- guru - Monday, 06/04/12 23:49:07 EDT

Diagonal Cuts:
When making flat surfaces, tools like files, scrapers, grinders and sanders are used on perpendicular axiis in alternate passes. On long rectangular surfaces diagonal works best but on round and square surfaces the perpendicular axiis are alternated on the diagonal in perpendicular sets making four axiis.

Even when grinding the edges of cut plate with an angle grinder using diagonal cuts do the best to flatten and straighten the edge.

These techniques were used to draw file and scrape precision surfaces prior to final bluing. When making hand made precision flats they started this way then in sets of three were lapped and blued until perfect. Using three surfaces alternately prevented creating matched curved or dished surfaces as would two. Surfaces accurate to about a micron were made this way by hand. This is one of several methods used to make precision measurements by hand.

In 1663, Otto von Guericke demonstrated the power of a vacuum with his Magdeburg Hemispheres to Emperor Ferdinand III. During public demonstrations, teams of horses would attempt to pull the hemispheres apart which were held together by the force of atmospheric pressure created using his vacuum pump.

These two cast iron hemispheres had to have precision flat surfaces to prevent leaking. These were made by hand using the methods similar to the above. Joseph Whitworth described the process of using three surfaces in a paper in 1840 but the method was known much earlier.

- guru - Tuesday, 06/05/12 16:21:01 EDT

Anvil Price?: My work is having a silent auction and there is an anvil in it. It has one horn and a flat rear. The bottom appears to be cast with 59 on the rear and 18 on the front, the upper is forged and rings when hit. Width of face is 4in and face length 14. Horn length 8in, base 10in x 9in and an overall height of 11.5in. Guessing somewhere around 50-60 pounds. Always wanted an anvil and don’t know the maker or what it is even worth. Any help would be appreciated – Jason
- Jason - Wednesday, 06/06/12 09:41:44 EDT

Anvil Value:
It is difficult to tell anything about this anvil without seeing it. Anvil make or brand makes a big difference as it generally indicates the way the anvil was made and quality.

Small anvils under 75 pounds sell for a lot more per pound than larger anvils. New they may be as much as $8 a pound and some old brands in good condition more. On the other hand, most of the new small anvils on the market are cheap imports that retail for $1/lb. and wholesale for half that. . .

If you are sure it is a forged anvil and its in good shape then you could make money buying it for $200.

As an auction item you need to consider who the other bidders are. If there is no interest in an item it may go for very little. But if there are people in the know OR naive bidders then its hard to tell.
- guru - Wednesday, 06/06/12 10:18:14 EDT


Those dimensions sound a lot like my 165# Euroanvil (which admittedly doesn't have a waist to speak of). If you put the anvil on the bathroom scale, you may find that you're stronger than you think (grin).
Mike BR - Wednesday, 06/06/12 19:01:32 EDT

Blueprint for Cyber Terrorism - Pandora's Box:
A decade ago I wrote my article on SPAM and viruses and noted that the world stage was set for Cyber Terrorism. I expected a small country with limited military capability to attack the the U.S. but it turns out that the U.S. without a doubt the most powerful military in the world was the first to use a virus to attack a small country with limited military power. . .

The problem is that once these things are in the wild control is lost. Also, the ideas that often require a lot of imagination are now public. The new Stuxnet virus created by U.S. agencies to attack a very specific industrial target in Iran can now be easily reprogrammed to attack millions of industrial controllers world wide.

The problem with this virus is that it attacks machine systems that do not have a high level of network security or a way to install anti-virus software. The Siemens PLC controller it attacks control everything from lighted billboards and stop lights to industrial robots and power plant equipment.

A single PLC is used for as little as measuring a temperature or sense shaft rotation to reding all the inputs and controlling all the outputs on an automated machine. Some are the "brains" of an industrial robot or part of system of controllers operating a production line. Multiple PLCs are used to operate entire manufacturing plants such as an auto factory or complicated systems such as a refinery or chemical processing plant.

Consider this simple scenerio. Most process temperature gauges or detection systems have a PLC interface which reads the temperature sensor, converts the voltage to temperature and either makes a local control decision OR reports the temperature to plant control system. Modify the PLC program and you could have the temperature reported much lower than it actually is. As a result the infected device would cause the equipment to be run at damaging, even explosive levels. This could cause anything from a building environmental controls to run too hot to a power plant or a refinery system to overheat.

The Pentagon or CIA was careful to go to a LOT of effort to have Stuxnet attack specific nuclear material refinement centrifuges used only in Iran causing them to run too fast and crash or blow up. But cyber terrorists are likely to be much less careful and turn loose versions that would affect every PLC they find in the same way. Vast categories of industry, everything from lighted Wall Street ticker displays to power plants to the temperature in a farmer's pig shed could be disrupted by a cyber attach on PLC's.

Other aspects government sponsored iWar viruses subjugated the update process on Windows allowing spying on every aspect of the infected computer as well as selecting the best targets for infection. . .

Besides the huge library of virus software previously available to hacker now they have government sponsored software to reengineer and spread word wide.

Many PLC's are not hooked to local networks but many are. And some of these are on networks hooked to the Internet (as much software FORCES you to do). All those on the Internet connected networks are susceptible to attack. The problem is that most have operating systems run on firmware. They cannot be easily upgraded or an antivirus system installed. Hardening these system will take decades. Meanwhile vast segments of infrastructure are open to attack.

Opening this Pandora's Box work's two ways. What works for one country will work for another. The problem is that many countries that would like to attack the U.S. do not need vast resources AND if the virus got loose in many of those countries it would have almost no affect while possibly causing us trillions of dollars to our economy or shutting down important installations.

Being at the top of the technological food chain makes one the easiest target of such cyber terrorism. Being in this position and releasing such a virus is stupidly irresponsible and we will end up paying the price in the end.

Welcome to the 21st Century.
- guru - Thursday, 06/07/12 22:42:40 EDT

I would argue that in industry most PLC's are NOT networked. Some are hooked to intra-nets, but most virus's will enter a PLC through a laptop when connected to a PLC to program or troubleshoot.
Most robots are the same way.
The Stuxnet virus was indeed designed to hit a specific target, had to have the right PLC, the right PLC operating system and the right programing software on the laptop. It has been surmised that the virus got onto the tech's laptops when they used the laptop to view porn online.
Pandora's box? Yes. US first to use? NO. The Chinese were and are probably the prime players in this war.

Want to protect PLC's? Simply make them return to the days of dedicated program interfaces that do NOT go online, that are not on a laptop, and then the virus would have to be inserted at the factory or no danger. Harder by some for the controls tech's but doable.
And this is a war, for our fiscal survival, and against those who would cause us great harm as well.
Secret weapons have always existed, and the countermeasure have always been quickly been developed, and generally at little cost and great effectiveness.
All is NOT gloom and doom.
ptree - Friday, 06/08/12 10:18:51 EDT

PC and PLC's: The advantage of PLC's over PC's is that they have many proprietary systems, unlike PC's which almost universally run Windirt and are very attack-able. PLC's also have very rigid proven logic rules suitable for dependable machine operation, something no Microdost language has ever had.

The problem is that in a great many environments, including places like the International Space Station, PC's are used for global control and data aquisition and disply with PLC's doing the hardware interface. They are all networked together.

The reasons for this are fairly obvious if you are in the industry. PLC's are very limited in what they do. They run logical programs that replace large banks of relays, timers and counters while also collecting, converting, using or transmitting sensor data. Their display systems are primitive and memory limited. But when connected to a PC years of data can be stored, reports generated and transmitted across the internet. The PC can be used for large character data display and real time graphing. . .

Almost universally these devices are are also programmed using a PC. In the early 80's when I started with PLC's the programmers were primitive dedicated systems. We had a large "lugable" SquareD programmer with a little 5" oscilloscope type display. It relied on the memory IN the PLC (a 16kb chip). No storage, no disks. . . A separate tape unit could be used to copy the program form the PLC. . By the late 80's and early 90's laptops were replacing the dedicated programmers and programs could be stored on disks. The new PLC's have USB ports and can be programmed using a PC or as often is the case permanently connected to a PC.

What used to take an IBM 360 main frame computer, a room with walls covered with annunciators, lights and levers can now all be done with a desktop PC networked to a .

The last PLC running an automated system that I setup was in 1993. All during program development and testing I had a desktop PC attached to the machine. Among the advantages of the PC is that I could keep numerous versions of the PLC software, make backups, print out Ladder programming reports, keep notes on the software and write the operating manual simultaneously with the program development.

On at least one occasion a few years later I had to take a laptop into the field and upload the program again.

The last PLC I used was used for data acquisition only. It read thermocouples, pressure transducers and flow meter pulses converting them to degrees, PSI and PPM values. These values were all read by a laptop PC which saved the data, displayed the values graphically like large LCD readouts PLUS created a real time graph of the data. All this was combined in the PC as a test report which could be saved as an HTML page and exported as a PDF. The technician could enter his name and a report title (device ID) before saving the report with the press of a button.

PLC's can be networked to expansion I/O boards, to each other for synchronization and to PC's for data acquisition and display as well as programming, high level control and updates. In modern factories PLC's are more likely connected to control room PC's than not.

IF the controlling PC is not connected to the Internet then it is pretty safe - or so thought the Iranians. So Stuxnet was written to be transmitted by USB "thumb drives" or memory cards. While this is a primitive way to transmit a virus it worked well enough in the 1980's that I managed to have a PC infected with the October 13 virus. This was a DOS virus written in the Middle East and passed PC to PC on 5.25" floppy disks. . .

The problem IS that it is virtually impossible, or very difficult to operate a modern PC that is not connected to the Internet. Late versions of Windows must be validated on the Internet or they stop operating. Many other software programs are the same OR can only be installed by Internet download. This is a good system for software companies but a TERRIBLE system for the user and for security. Just try to install a copy of Acrobat Pro without an Internet connection. . . . YES, most software gives you a voice telephone option but it is not easy and sometimes virtually impossible. Try to update and move software. . .

Most high level software keys itself to the main processor's serial number and cannot just be copied from PC to PC or the hard drive moved to a new system. I recently had to replace my motherboard. To avoid the problems or re-registration I found a motherboard that accepted my old Intel processor. . . it was not easy and all the expense did not give me a faster or better system.
- guru - Friday, 06/08/12 12:31:07 EDT

Dan Bourlotos:

Unless the anvil is rare you might consider building up the top plate with 7018 welding rod. After you finish a bead, hammer it as flat as possible, then thoroughly brush off any scale. To me this helps to 'work harden' it. Don't worry about pre-heating. By the time you have laid down a couple of dozen rods anvil will be heated nicely.

To weld around the hardy hold try to find a slug of aluminum and taper it to fit into the hole. Weld won't stick to it much. For the pritchel hole I use soaked dowel rod, then drill out.

Note Guru's advice on leaving champhered corners.

I've done about a dozen this way and the owners I occasionally run into are still quite satisified with them.
- Ken Scharabok - Saturday, 06/09/12 09:46:26 EDT

Camp Fenby Summer Session, 2012: 6/29-7/1: If you're in the Mid-Atlantic area in about three weeks.

Barring extreme weather(hurricane, heat wave, earthquake…), our 2012 summer session of Camp Fenby will take place on June 29th through July 1st, Friday through Sunday, in Oakley, Maryland.

Camp Fenby is a very laid-back arts and crafts teaching and learning event with blacksmithing, metalworking, woodworking, fiber arts, soapstone work, cooking, and whatever else our somewhat diverse group can find to teach or learn about. The primary emphasis is on the early medieval period, but we diverge as desired.

Usually, folks can camp out on site, and there are a number of rental cottages, B & Bs, and motels in the area. Saturday night traditionally features a Maryland-style hard crab feast (or other, more land-bound, fare of choice) or maybe a moonlight cruise on the longship. Alternatively, we can do a bonfire in the evenings and sing songs and gently imbibe encouraging brews.

For more information, please contact me; or check-out or join our YahooGroups site at the link below.

Camp Fenby: good friends, good food, good work, since 1993!

Camp Fenby Yahoo Group
Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Monday, 06/11/12 09:55:41 EDT

Trenton Anvil: I have a trenton anvil that weighs 160 lbs and is marked 149 m31244 on the foot of the anvil. Any info would be great to include age and possible value? Thanks for your time
- Jeff Harrsion - Thursday, 06/14/12 20:27:45 EDT

in America US$1 to US$3 a pound depending on condition and LOCATION

The 149 is the weight at the factory a bit odd to be that much over it after use. Has it been extensively repaired?
Thomas P - Friday, 06/15/12 12:37:28 EDT

It does not appear to have any repairs. I am in northeast oklahoma. Thanks, I am goiing to post a large listing to the tailgate sales.
Jeff Harrsion - Friday, 06/15/12 13:07:36 EDT

First digit of serial number should not be an m. Would be either an A or number.
- Ken Scharabok - Sunday, 06/17/12 10:40:43 EDT

computer made parts: The discussion in the den about cnc blades reminded me of a lot of media talk lately about "plastic printing" of parts. It is described as a process where you scan a part with laser and then"print" it using a plastic build up technique. Stock removal or cutting the part out of a block was mentioned too. The whole excitement seemed to be around the one off market,you can get that replacement part made rather than paying for warehousing. Also good for obsolete parts.The articles did not see the difference between cutting something out and spraying plastic. I wonder if this is the game changer that some media think it is, unless EVERYTHING is made of plastic.
- wayne@nb - Tuesday, 06/19/12 07:51:45 EDT

Rapid Prototyping: Wayne, These processes are often over simplified and have limited (albeit very useful) uses. Complicated parts (anything hollow or with holes) must be made from 3D CAD drawings - not simple scans. Almost anything worth while made by the process is made from CAD models.

The original rapid prototyping systems used plastic. A laser scanned a pool of resin making a layer of the part, then the bed moved down and then another scan. Very complicated parts can be made.

When Iomega was making their first Zip drives they wanted demo models ASAP. They had a limited run of 200 cases (I think) made by rapid prototyping. Besides getting samples in hand they could also find errors in the part before committing it to very expensive injection molding dies (for making millions of units).

Rapid prototyping can also be used to make patterns as well as forms for EDM sinking dies.

New processes use a mixture of plastic and powdered metal and through a number of steps make solid metal parts. It is a pretty slick process. It goes from a solid CAD model to a completed part skipping the patternmaker, mold and casting processes. To me this is a little sad. It also allows making parts that have undercuts that could not come out of a mold. . .

Then there is the almost science fiction process in development that creates living tissue using a computer and printing with living cells. This process starts with an organic substrate (special paper) and organic material replacing the ink in an actual ink jet printer. . . Early goals are to make skin for burn victims then develop equipment to make other more 3 dimensional organs. This system can build nerves, veins . . . .

Combine these with 5 axis LASER cutting and other high tech systems and YES this IS the 21st Century and we are all playing catch up.
- guru - Tuesday, 06/19/12 10:32:28 EDT

I have seen several of these machines at trade shows and the prices are coming down for them and there is constant inovation. BUT!!! as always the media and "experts" who don't think of all the financials way over estimate how much of our manufactured goods will be produced by these methods.

I have had parts quoted made this way and a former employer had a master pattern made this way. If there is a CAD model smaller parts can be pretty cheap. But the materials are laid down in pretty thin layers to get a decent surface finish so bigger parts are still very expensive due the time required, the materials and the expense of the larger machines. The pattern I saw that was made this way needed a lot of work to make it smooth enough to come out of the moulds. I made some wooden models of a new design of speakers for the consumer electronics show in Vegas a few years ago. The designer used a lot of stereo lithography models but these 3' high 6"x4" speakers would have cost him a fortune. I was not cheap it was a week and a half of work but I was still cheaper than the rapid prototyping.

Once the tooling is made and amortized over a lot of parts injection, blow, and roto moulding is incredibly cheap. As is high production sand or injection moulding. When there are only a limited number of smaller parts is where these processes shine.
- JNewman - Wednesday, 06/20/12 17:02:50 EDT

I just got a call from Jamaica mon. . . Says they are from the Publisher's Clearing House and I have won $250,000! RIGGHHT. . . . Then the guy says all I have to do is buy a $130 money order to pay for delivery. . .

Apparently Jamaica has become a hot bed of phone scams. These include phone contest scams and various phishing schemes. Some are down right abusive. Calling them back can cost you a lot in International phone fees.

If you don't know anyone on Jamaica or have business there your best bet is to not answer any call from an 876 area code or identified as a Jamaica call.
- guru - Thursday, 06/21/12 14:31:35 EDT

Swapping lies: Just got back into the fishing (not phishing, I am not Jamaican or Nigerian). The Neshaminy creek gets stocked with trout, but naturally keeps sunnies, bass, shad, catfish, giant carp, the like. Now, the sunnies are the easiest catch. The other day I hooked a sunny the wrong way, hook came out the eye, blood seeping from the gills. I felt real bad, put it out of its misery. The fish went to no waste as I used its meat and ended up with a HUGE catfish.... I mean like almost 2 feet long (read 15 inches).... in waist high waters, pulling a fish that big almost scared me! The slimy creature was my top catch of the year, released and alive. I try to explain the excitement and fun of fishing to people, it's just something you have to feel I guess.
- Nippulini - Friday, 06/22/12 08:38:42 EDT

The weirdness of Coincidences:
I am not big on fishing but had a fishing dream last night. We were trolling for striped bass in a large lake. We were just starting when I tried to pull my two fouled lines out of the water. One line had some kind of large weird lungfish. The lines slipped away and as I started to pull them aboard there was a large bright silvery fish on the second line and the other was still there. . . then the first changed to a bear which when I got it aboard was a man in a bear suit - claimed he was there to inspect the boat (some kind of environmentalist) since it was built on the hull of a "factory boat". The environmentalist was rather rude and at one point I asked him if he thought the boat loaded with kids and middle aged women in swim suits was a threat to the environment?

The dream degraded into something about floating apartments and an alligator deep in the water off the stern of the boat where I had been fishing. . . I thought it was time for the environmentalist to go back into the water. . .

I remember most of my dreams. Sometimes they make sense, sometimes not. I class them two ways. "Can't get there from here" (frustration) and "just plain weird". The frustration dreams are usually a reflection of what is going on in my life. But it has been so constantly frustrating the past few years that its become a normal state that I've stopped obsessing over.

When I was young I had a theory that dreams were the bits and pieces of incomplete thoughts and conversations during the day that the brain strung together to complete no matter how illogical so it could file them away as finished. This also fits with the fact that they claim you will go mad if you do not dream. As I got older it was more difficult to figure out where the pieces came from and I've doubted my theory. But I still think it is a good theory since we don't usually know whats going one in our subconscious.
- guru - Friday, 06/22/12 10:36:27 EDT

Anvil: FOR SALE - one vintage (forged?) anvil in good+ condition, weighs 102 pounds, square slots - vertical on top and a smaller horizontal slot in the base. Likely Shows FN under the horn. Located in Fishkill, NY. Multiple photos available. 914-474-0066. Make me an offer!
Klaus - Friday, 06/22/12 10:48:16 EDT

Woodworking tools: FOR SALE - Multiple power tools for woodworking- 12" Ridgid lathe, 10" radial arm saw, 10" table saw with guides and side shelves, all with legs for stand-alone use; also 8" drill press, antique Black & Decker Model 60 drill press frame (for clamping in a hand drill, which I DO NOT have), 2 circular saws, misc. other. Owners's manuals for most
Moving, so they all gotta go! Photos available. Make me an offer! Located in Fishkill, NY.914-474-0066
Klaus - Friday, 06/22/12 10:53:45 EDT

Rapid Prototyping: The artwork of Bathsheba Grossman is a great example of using the 3d printing process creatively.
She designs her work in the computer, often making forms that would be difficult if not impossible to carve or machine, and then has them made in a 3D printer.
The process she uses prints metal powders in a binder, which are then placed in an oven, and the binder burns off, and the metal fuses. The result is solid metal parts, that are printed, not cast.
There are other companies that you can send a 3D computer file to, and they will 3D print a plastic original, which is then investment cast in the metal of your choice. You receive the finished metal part in the mail.
- ries - Friday, 06/22/12 19:30:45 EDT

computer made parts: So. Say I've got a Part (or a few ) I need made.How do I get a 3D computer file made for the Part ?
- wayne@nb - Sunday, 06/24/12 10:42:57 EDT

Wayne, you either do it yourself or hire someone that is expert in 3D modeling.

Prior to making the model you will need detail drawings. The better the details, the less likely there will be problems with the model. If you have views in 2D CAD that can be imported these can often be used to make the model.

3D models can be easy to make or quite difficult depending on the shape. Years ago I spent a lot time using a 3D CAD program and found that complex non-mechanical (organic) shapes were easier than accurate mechanical models.

I spent 100's of hours learning to be marginally capable with 3D CAD. Most of it creating a couple nudes. I suspect the tools are better today but I found it very frustrating. The last 3D work I did was with some demo tools from an intergated engineering package. Its the cyconex and sphere logo I used for Mass3j.

The sectioned cyconex was made by taking a right triangle and rotating it through a partial circle. The triangle was drawn in my DesignCAD 2D program and imported into the engineering 3D CAD. The reason I used the engineering demo package was that it was easier to use than the newer version of Design CAD 3D which had been rewritten and did not work the same as the one I had spent hundreds of hours learning. . .

SO, if you do it yourself expect a LONG learning curve.

- guru - Sunday, 06/24/12 13:53:28 EDT

Solid Models:
The purpose of the model must be taken into consideration. Rapid Prototyping can make parts with undercuts and horizontal grooves that cannot be cast except with complex multi-piece molds or that cannot be cast at all. If the part is to be cast or formed in simple dies then draft must be included in the model.

Solid models are often used for engineering analysis called FES (Finite Element Analysis). These are made in a graphical environment then imported into the FEA program. The more accurate the model the more accurate the analysis. Some engineering models include connected parts, pivots, shafts, bolting and used for dynamic analysis.

Solid models are used more today for movie and game environments than engineering purposes. These models are "skinned" with color and texture maps and can look like practically anything from landscapes to buyildings or animals. Complex models with connected skeletons with flexibility and joints are used to create movie monsters and even humans. "Jurasic Park" was one of the first uses of this technology that was hard to distinguish from reality.

While this technology is almost commonplace today it is still not easy. Accurate models of even simple parts can take many hours. In many cases it is still more economical to use conventional pattern making and casting methods or machining methods.

- guru - Sunday, 06/24/12 19:10:48 EDT

Dreams: Jock, I'd like to know what you are eating before you go to sleep.
- Nippulini - Monday, 06/25/12 12:02:48 EDT

Not fresh caught fish. . .
- guru - Monday, 06/25/12 14:19:53 EDT

induction forge: Who is selling the small induction forges suitable for the small shop now?
- JimG - Wednesday, 06/27/12 11:58:12 EDT

Tip: Found this in DeLaRonde's book and found it QUITE effective... deadening the anvils ring with a U shaped rod through the pritchel hole. I've tried magnets, clay, foam, nailing it down, but THIS works real well. Somehow the addition of the rod having contact with the face of the anvil kills vibrations.
- Nippulini - Wednesday, 06/27/12 12:24:52 EDT

Kim Loyola - Wednesday, 06/27/12 12:32:54 EDT

JimG: By induction forge do you mean an atmospheric propane forge? Try Centaur Forge, North Carolina Tool Co. and Pieh Tools. Also do a Google search on Zoeller Forge. I don't know if he makes a complete forge or just the blower parts.
- Ken Scharabok - Wednesday, 06/27/12 14:36:52 EDT

Induction Forges:
The forges the late Grant Sarver was selling are now sold by Larry Langdon of Monster Metal in Seatac, WA
- guru - Wednesday, 06/27/12 14:55:35 EDT

Thanks Jock,
No Ken, I meant the electric ones that Grant was selling. I was having no joy using the google machine to find any information other than Grant.
JimG - Thursday, 06/28/12 09:24:13 EDT

While an atmospheric gas burner induces flow of air to mix with the fuel, a true induction heater uses alternating electrical current in a coil around the part to be heated and causes a counter current in the part. This only works with materials that are Magnetically suspectable. Induction heating usually leaves very little scale compared to a gas forge, and in a production environment the reduction in energy cost is staggering, usually at least 10 times less for the induction. The equipment is usually more expensive, and the coils tend to get banged up some but they are usually about half the maintenance demand of a production gas forge.
They are also much quieter than a big blown industrial gas forge and heat the area far less.
In bigger units you do have to have a cooling tower to keep the coolant flowing thruogh the coil cool.
The thing that really impresses most when they are first exposed to induction is how blindly fast a through heat appears on a billet. In the 5.5" diameter stock we made big axles from, a gas forge took about 45 minutes to reach a through heat on a 3' lenght. The induction heater took just under 60 seconds.
ptree - Thursday, 06/28/12 15:26:13 EDT

First Class Tools:
We have just listed a number of tools for a client on the Tailgate and with individual pages. These are all first class tools (mostly German) and would go a long way to setup a metalworking shop. Check them out!
Versa-Kut Cold Saw
- guru - Thursday, 06/28/12 16:04:08 EDT

Pretty "optimistic" prices on those tools.
I paid a grand for my used cold saw. You can get a late model, very clean, CNC fullly automatic cold saw used for about 75% of what they are asking.
And a brand new Hossfeld, with hydraulics, straight from the factory is only about 300 bucks more than their used price.
I am also pretty sure those Glasers are Turkish...
Which, in and of itself, is not a bad thing.
- Ries - Thursday, 06/28/12 19:19:34 EDT

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