Blacksmith Vises :

Solid Box, Post or Leg Vise or Vice (British)

The blacksmith leg vise or "solid box vise" is one of the most important tools in the blacksmiths shop. It firmly holds hot iron while it is hammered, chiseled or twisted. These are the only vise that is designed to take this kind of use day in and day out. A small 30 pound blacksmith's vise can survive pounding that would wreck a much heavier cast iron bench vise.

Three things make a blacksmith's vice special. One is that they are forgings, not cast iron. The second is the leg which provides support at the floor or from a sunken post. The last is the hinge, while not a perfect way to construct a vice the pin joint is durable and can take a considerable beating. If sheared it is easy to replace. These things all combine into a tool that can take decades of heavy use and abuse. Most in use are one to two hundred years old.

Some of these vises were made by specialists such as Atwood of Stourbridge England, Columbian in the U.S. and others were made in anvil manufacturing plants such as Mousehole Forge and Peter Wright in England and Fisher-Norris and others in North America. The design of these vises right down to the last chamfer seems to have been perfected in the 1600's and remained more or less the same until the 20th century. The bodies are forged wrought iron or mild steel and they have hard steel surfaces welded into the jaws.

Around the turn of the 20th Century during the hey-day of the blacksmith shop in North America these tools were considered so standard a commodity that they were sold without reference to manufacturer. Very few were even marked with the maker's name. Size is best defined by weight as there is some variation in jaw size from manufacturer to manufacturer. They were sold by the pound and are still best judged by the pound.

Note that new manufacturers no longer follow these "standard" proportions and a modern Indian made 8" vise only weighs 120 pounds compared to the 200 to 250 pounds of the old vises.

Vise Size and Weight: In my 1894 catalog, the leg vise weight and jaw width are listed thusly (chart below), and I believe they are referring to the Peter Wrights. [ chart moved below ]

As Jock pointed out, there are going to be variations, even by the same manufacturer. For example, I saw in Scotland a Peter Wright vise that had a 6-7/8" jaw and a 20" long spring. The legs had a very slight chamfer. I have one with the same jaw width and a 17" spring. The chamfering is much more pronounced.
Frank Turley - Saturday, 06/21/03 12:34:25 GMT

English Solid Box Vises

Weight	Jaw
30	3.5
35	3.75
40	4
45	4.25
50	4.5
55	4.75
60	5
65	5
70	5.25
75	5.25
80	5.5
85	5.5
90	5.75
95	5.75

Weight	Jaw
100	6
110	6
120	6.5
130	6.5
140	7
150	7
160	7.25
170	7.25
180	7.5
190	NA
200	8

Weight in Pounds Jaw width in inches.

Two size vises - graphic by Jock Dempsey

60 pound English vise and 200-250 pound American vise showing the difference in proportions. The 60# vise has 5" wide jaws and a 50# American vise in my shop has 4.5" jaws both matching the chart. However, a 125 pound English vise in my shop has 6" jaws (smaller than the chart).

The height of all these vices from the top of the jaws to the flange on the leg is 39" (990 mm).

Mounting Leg Vises: Sturdy is important. When I have a chance to mount a vise on a bench the bench is anchored to the wall and the floor first. Then I make a plate to anchor to the wall with a piece of angle iron extending from it. This is mounted under the bench top and has a hole for at least one of the vise bolts to go through.

The foot of a leg vise needs a load distribution pad. Usually a metal plate with a hole for the spike. OR a good hard stone as Thomas has suggested. The load pad can rest on concrete, wood or brick. On a dirt floor it was common to set a post deep in the earth next to the vise mounting post for the foot to set on. These were cut above the floor OR below as needed. Use a good creosoted or salt treated post. In a permanent shop with a dirt floor you may want to also seal the post with tar for longevity.

The two stands shown here were designed for portability. The new steel stand works very well but needs some ribs to extend out on the base plate to reduce springiness. The reason the vise is set to the back of the plate is so that you stand on the plate when using the vise. You CAN NOT make the vise move when you are standing on its base! This baseplate is some 3/8" scrap I had. It would seem stiff enough without ribs or diagonals but it is not. I suspect that 1/2" or thicker is needed to avoid the springiness.

The stump mounted vise looks cool but was a bad design. It acts like a rolly-poly clown toy and is not very steady. One twice as big might have been OK. Over the years the edges of the stump have worn round making the problem worse. My plan is to mount this stump on a piece of plate like the other vise. The larger wheel base will prevent tipping and be very solid. It will also prevent further wear on the stump.

Portable vise mounts either need to be large OR heavy. I think most brake drum mounts are two small and light. Avoid welding to the vise if you can.

One very interesting vise mount I saw recently was on a hitch receiver. Slip off the trailer ball and slip in the vise. Anchoring to the bumper on a heavy vehical is about as solid as you can get.
- guru - Thursday, 06/19/03 03:27:23 GMT

Types and Age of Blacksmith Vises: Few of these tools were marked by the manufacturer but there were some general differences in style. The old English vices had more and finer decorative lines. The chamfers on the legs were deep and produced a square section turned 45°. The nuts and screw were turned and had decorative molding and lines. The oldest vises had a rectangular tenon on the bench bracket that pierced the back leg and spring. A pin in front of the spring held the vise to the bracket.

Later vises (after about 1838) had wrap around strap brackets held in place with a clip and wedge system. Some of the latest American vises had U-bolt mounts. These bench brackets were three different types. One that is definitely English is a tapered diamond shape with bean ends for the bolts. The drop forged American style is a simplified version of this. Then there is the split "rams horn" type bracket that was derived from the early tenon type.

Most surviving American made vises tend to be the late drop forged types and some have cast parts. There is less decoration on the late American vises, no or low chamfers on the legs and no turning on the nut and screw.

Parts:
Blacksmith Vise Parts

Missing from the laid out parts is the screw - my mistake. The vice to the right is a tennon mount type from Old Millstone Forge in New Jersey, USA and dates from about 1820. This vice has been repaired by replacing the screw handle with a bar with nuts threaded onto the ends. Someone recently cut off the foot to clear a new floor. . .

Vise Heights and mounting:

There are different heights for different purposes. The normal for general work is to have the top of the jaws at about 39" (990 mm) for work while standing. This is the height of most blacksmith leg vises and is good for sawing, chiseling and heavy filing. Blacksmith vises of all sizes are usually this height from jaw to leg flange. If the leg flange is set on something above the ground the height will be a little higher. If you are shorter or taller than average then the vise may want to adjusted to suit.

One of the handiest most used vises in my shop is a heavy 6-1/2" 130 pound Prentis chipping vise mounted on a 39" (990 mm) tall bench. This puts the jaws at 49" (1245 mm). This is a high vise but it is convenient for close work or things like planing a board that you want to "eyeball" for straightness and for heavy bending at shoulder level where you pull with your all. I've moved this vise and bench twice and set it up the same way because I always liked it. Note, I am 5'9" (1753 mm)tall.

This most important thing about mounting vises is that they are on a sturdy immovable stand or bench.

For work sitting you may want a vise as low as 28" (711 mm) or as high as 36" (914 mm). However, if sitting on a tall chair the standard 39" height works well.

Note that a good portion of the work done at a blacksmith vise is hammering. Bench vises will not withstand this type of use. Even the very expensive unbreakable forged steel vises will end up with bent guide arms or broken screws.

A little 30 to 50 pound blacksmiths leg vise will withstand abuse that takes a 120 to 150 pound HD bench vise to withstand. Blacksmith vises generally survive to wear out where most bench vises end up broken at the end of their much shorter lives.

Vise Lubrication:

Vise screws are often overlooked when lubricating machinery and the result is a hard to use vise or worn out screw. High pressure lubricants such as Never-Seize work great on vise screws. Don't forget to put a little under the thrust washer.

References and Links

Alphabet Soup What's that acronym?
Mousehole Forge Book Review of guide to the historic English landmark.

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