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WANTED Tips of the Day: I'm sure most of you have seen our Tips of the Day. There are currently 6 categories, General, Safety, Buyer, Newbie, Anvil and Welding with some overlap between the categories. We may add a Machinery tips in the future. The tips are spread around on various pages and will be added to more. Currently we have nearly 6 months of tips in the "General" category and will be closing that one out other than swapping better tips for lesser tips. The goal for the other lists is 73 tips (1/5 year) or more. Some categories currently have less than a month's worth. We are looking for new tips to add particularly in Safety and Welding but are open to tips in any category. We can add tips any time but it changes the display order resulting in tips repeating so we would like to add new tips at the first of the year. If you are interested in sending in some tips let me know. I can help with duplication problems. - guru - Sunday, 12/04/11 12:23:39 EST Pocket Hammer: I've been doing a lot of small tapers for the past year when making candlesticks. Tedious work when done by hand and very time consuming. It cuts into my profit margin a lot. On youtube I came across a video of what the guy called a "pocket hammer". It's a very small power hammer and it looks like it might answer my need for a compact machine to do light work. Has anyone else seen this video and if so what do you think of it? I'm considering building one. - Bill - Tuesday, 01/31/12 23:39:26 EST Bill, Power hammers include small palm hammers operated by air and little riveting hammers with heads of only a few ounces. On a good power hammer up to 100 pounds or so you can draw tapers on wire with a little practice. - guru - Wednesday, 02/01/12 00:18:44 EST Tapers: Bill, As Jock said, with a controllable power hammer you can draw tapers on a wire. When I have to do a bunch of identical tapers I use a taper die on my power hammer. This is just a ramp die I drop over the bottom flat die on the hammer and it produces controlled identical tapers very quickly. I have ramp dies in about six or seven different angles. Tapering works best when you can flip the work 90° with each blow -0 this keeps the metal moving and that creates heat in it so your heat lasts longer. This applies on both hand hammering and power hammer work. Because of this, small "power hammers" like hand nailers and re-purposed air chisels, are not satisfactory. You can't flip the material fast enough to keep up with something that operates at thousands of blows per minute. You could make Kinyon-style power hammer that was small, say 20#, but it would cost nearly as much as making one three times that size and the bigger one would do more work. I looked on YouTube and found the link below - that looks like a small "Rusty" type mechanical hammer. They're cheap and easy to build but not as easy to get right as an air hammer. That one didn't look like it would be much advantage over hand hammering, frankly. Again, might as well build the bigger one and have the capacity to do bigger work as well. Pocket Hammer Rich Waugh - Wednesday, 02/01/12 11:33:37 EST Powdered Metals: Rich - thy're a high raw material cost of making a product. Where they excell is unique alloys that can't be produced by normal metallurgiacal methods, and for parts that would require a lot of machining from bar stock. Press the powder, sinter it, and minimal machining @ adequate strength levels. For example, to make our iron powder, we melt scrap in an EAF, atomize it by hitting the stream with high pressure water, dewater and dry the powder, anneal it in a furnace @ over 2000 F in a nitrogen/hydrogen atmosphere, mill/size it, then usually sell it to a customer as a mixed powder with lubricant, graphite, and alloying element poders added. It's a lot easier to melt, continuously cast and roll to size. - Gavainh - Wednesday, 02/01/12 13:11:01 EST The above linked hammer only works on sheet metal. It does not run fast enough to actually do the work it should. There is no thickness compensation as needed in a forging hammer. Many builders do not understand the need for springs and or toggle links in this regard. They do many things. 1) Compensate for material thickness change. 2) Increase the throw of the hammer (should be as much as 3x the crank throw), to hit harder. 3) Absorbs the upward inertia. Without this the mechanism will be wrecked in short order. 4) Return that absorbed upward inertia as downward force. Small hammers that run high speed are fine for heavy drawing but their speed make them difficult to control and manipulate stock under them. Larger hammers do the same or more work at slower speed thus are easier to control and manipulate stock under. Air hammers intrinsically have thickness compensation but they have no inertia return. Upward motion is stopped with power, not saved and returned. Between this and the general inefficeincy of compressed air it takes 4 to 5 times the horsepower to run an air hammer as a properly built mechanical hammer. A 100 pound mechanical will run on 1.5 HP but the same hammer would take a 5 to 8 HP air compressor. While everyone should have a good air compressor in their shop it is not necessarily the best way to power a hammer. However, air hammers have other benefits so its often comparing apples and oranges. - guru - Wednesday, 02/01/12 13:36:28 EST I have a "Rusty" style hammer. More correctly these are "Powell Patent" as the patent goes back to something like 1872. Mine is set to run at about 180 BPM, and is very controllable, and at 70# definetly beats a hand hammer. As the easiest hammer to homebuild and to scrounge for they are a good choice for the first time machine builder. Unlike Rich, I would argue that an air hammer is harder to get right, especially when the parts are scrounged. Mine is fully adjustable for stock thickness, and using a tire clutch I can single blow, feather for light blows and run wide open, all by the movement of the treadle. I have run this style hammer with a 12# ram, and it beat a hand hammer. My 70# started as a 32# in 2002, morphed to 45# then got a new clutch the compact spare system, then got a much better, Tire Hammer style slide and morphed to 70# this past winter. I would also say, ANY running power hammer is better than no power hammer. ptree - Wednesday, 02/01/12 14:31:18 EST Power hammers: Once I finally got my head around the way a Kinyon-style air hammer is designed to work, I found it simple to build one, Jeff. It was that first hurdle of understanding that was the tough part for me, though. As Jock noted, an air hammer just naturally adjusts for stock thickness and that, to me, is the big advantage of them. I like the fact that mechanical hammers use a lot less energy, and I may still get one made someday. Due to floor space restrictions, I'd probably try to build a Dupont-type rather than a spring helve, and that is more trouble to get right than a spring helve. I will try it though, if I can ever find the time. Too many projects. I agree that scrounging parts for the air circuit of a power hammer is likely to make it very tough to get things right. Good working parts can be had new at a fairly reasonable price, if you look around. I just bought all new stock for replacements for my air circuit; cylinder, control valve, roller valve, check valve and mist lubricator, and the whole shebang was just over four hundred bucks. Not cheap, but in my case, making a living with it, cheap insurance against downtime. All the rest of the parts for a power hammer are about equal as far as scrounging goes, whether you make an air or mechanical hammer. I agree wholeheartedly that any power hammer, even a rope drop, is better than a hand hammer. Without a power hammer I wouldn't be able to do half the work I do now. As I get progressively older and less physically able, it will only get more important to have the power hammer. Rich Waugh - Wednesday, 02/01/12 15:09:00 EST While Any power hammer is better than no power hammer many DIY hammers are as good as no hammer. . . Many are built without understanding the basic principals. Yes, a simple drop works but it needs distance and mass. On spring hammers the blow needs to be before the spring starts the return. I've seen hammers from the Clay Spencer workshops that were completely uncontrollable. This was due to building a machine thinking it would be used with hand tooling that was going to used for free hand die to die forging. To get a hammer to strike at 1" that is built to strike at 6" you have to run the hammer nearly full speed to get it to contact the work. . . I've seen DIY air hammers with no or very little anvil mass, the frame doing all the work. This is noisy, inefficient, produces low power blows and will eventually rip the machine apart. I've seen DIY air hammers that the ram repeatedly "topped" out striking whatever was in the way. . . Even with retrofitted snubber springs this is a very bad condition requiring a lot of redesign to fix. Many of the tube in tube guide systems are impossible or difficult to adjust properly. The result is dies that can shift when they make a blow. This makes it difficult to do fine work and tends to spit the work out of the dies. LOTS of folks successfully build DIY hammers but I think nearly as many are not successful. - guru - Wednesday, 02/01/12 19:05:07 EST DIY/JYH: I would offer that many folks try to build beyond their skills when it comes to Power hammers. I would offer that anyone that can make a sound weld, and visit a decent auto salvage yard can build a workable spring helve. The Dupont style are grand, but are a more precision demanding design, that takes decent machine tool work. The air hammers require either 10 times the initial cost of my spring helve or fantastic scrounging ability.And you have to have a pretty decent compressor. A total rebuild for my machine would be one leaf spring, about 1 square foot of UHMWPE and a compact spare tire + some iron with simple drilled holes.(I did just rebuild by the way) It must be said that I am a good scrounger, with great scrounging opportunities. It must also be said I designed machines for a good deal of my career, so design and building was a breeze. It must also be said that I used the best features of the Powell patent spring helve and the tire hammer. As an aside I built a miniature facsimile of the Kinyon hammer as a co-op at WABCO in about 1979 or 80 as a trainer for our sales rep's. Smaller and lighter, and designed to crack pecans without smashing the nuts. Built for our school, to demonstrate many of our control circuit components. I had never then seen an air hammer, and noodled it out. It worked, and by the way it was auto fed and auto unloaded, and the sales guys loved it. Still used as a trained as far as I know. But I had access to any pneumatic component I could desire, and a full machine model shop. Great learning experience, but not an easy build. I have been around that baby hammer. I have a small impact air hammer for forging sitting in my shed. I have built and improved my Powell patent hammer, and have worked around steam and air drop hammers from 1500# to 25,000 pound. I have run 25 and 50# LG's, aBig Blu's and Saymaks. If money were not a factor and I could buy any hammer I desired, give me a rotory valved steam hammer. BUT money is a factor, and was a big factor when I built. So the then $43 installed in 2002 was a big issue. After rebuilds, upping the ram to 70# and the anvil to something like 900# by scabbing on scrap,and a new old stock motor, I am still less than $400. And I have used that hammer hard. Not every day hard, but weekend business hard. If some one gave me a Kinyon I would be glad to accept it. Same for almost any reasonable sized hammer. But after 10 years of running, if I were to have to scrounge and build another hammer, it would be a Powell spring helve. And yes Rich I still like you and will not call you names:) ptree - Wednesday, 02/01/12 21:22:17 EST Power Hammer: Sounds like I have a huge amount of research to complete before I can continue with my design. I'm afraid I have asked too many questions of the Guru lately. He might be getting tired of me about now. I'll be looking up some terms and some designs I am not familiar with. When next I ask a question I hope it will be somewhat less basic. Thanks to all of you gentlemen. You've given me much to consider and much to use in planning my next step. - Bill - Wednesday, 02/01/12 22:02:20 EST Power Hammer Space: The two hammers that take up the most space are the self contained hammers and spring helv hammers. But one of the worst was my EC-JYH due to the length of the auto rear-axel. One of the most compact is our current project hammer with a 16 x 30" base plate and taking a total of 24 x 36" (edge of motor on one side to edge of treadle in front). Most of the machine fits in the 16 x 30. But its a little tall at 92". It could be shorter if it did not have a tire-hammer clutch. Its a 100 pound hammer. A Little Giant 100 requires 28 x 42 but that width did not include the motor, so (~36 x 42) AND that also does not include the necessary access to the back. Ours is a lighter machine but takes 6 square feet less floor space (10 if you include the wall offset needed by an LG). Of course its best not to cramp machinery. . . In most shops 10 square feet should not be an issue for an important machine. But it all ads up and I've seen folks working in some amazingly small spaces. Air hammers seem very compact until you include the air compressor. However, you can put it outside where you don't have to listen to it. . But the farther away the more piping $ is required. The difficult (or expensive) parts of building a DIY hammer are 1) the mass, 2) the guide system, 3) the die system (if you want good interchangeable dies). While the coil spring Dupont linkage is fairly picky the bow spring type is much more forgiving and has fewer parts. There is no more machining involved than making a spring helve. ANd the results are much more compact. - guru - Wednesday, 02/01/12 23:23:31 EST Power Hammer SPace: The requirements for power hammer space just keep dropping as time goes by, it would seem. Jock's latest venture in mechanical hammers only occupies 2'x3', a far cry from the 4'x8' for a Bradley Compact Helve Hammer of a hundred years ago. And the Bradley was "compact", compared to a steam hammer from fifty years earlier. The steam hammer required a boilerhouse, boiler, firebox, fuel storage, etc. Which was still less space-hungry than its predecessor the tilt hammer - those things required a sluiceway and a water wheel to supply the motive force. That's some serious real estate. I'm sure that, had there been power hammer forums back then, the guru-of-the-day would have remarked that every real blacksmith shop needed a water wheel anyway to run grinding stones, cool the tuyeres and remove waste from the smithy's privy. (grin) Give it another hundred years and who knows what we'll have come up with. Perhaps a power hammer that operates on a quantum power source, or maybe a Star Trek pressor beam? Stay tuned... Rich Waugh - Thursday, 02/02/12 12:09:14 EST I know several people who really LOVE their Anyang 33lb hammers. These are small, relatively inexpensive, self contained air hammers. Cast iron, built well, and they work right out of the box. If you are interested in seeing how much work can be done with one, go over to our NWBA website, www.blacksmith.org, and check out some of the postings of Sam Salvati. He has several threads where he shows how he uses the itty bitty Anyang to make knives, tools, hammers, and more. - ries - Thursday, 02/02/12 13:50:18 EST Influential black smith: Well I am doing the photo collage on frank turley. I figure photos of him and his work might be easier to find and use and he has helped me in many cases on here and other sites and I think founding that first school was a huge undertaking. Thanks frank and after the pic is done I'll put a link to it if you want frank. I tried to make sure all work was yours on it but if not I'm sorry. But the idea and design will still work its more for the concept of black smithing. - Brandin lemons - Thursday, 02/02/12 15:37:07 EST coal in mo: im looking for a reliable place for coal aournd Dexter MO ive bout from bam and its geting expensive and my forging oparashons are geting begger and begger its costing me a lot of money just for coal buying from there im looking for a place i can buy a ton or so aat a time thanks brandon - Thursday, 02/02/12 23:32:29 EST COAL: Brandon, Coal is infinitely variable and most good coal is trucked great distances such as from Pennsylvania or West Virginia. It used to be that coal yards received coal by train but coal yards are now mostly gone due to lack of use except by large power plants. So today you pay the market energy price equivalent for oil (for all fuels corn included) on the coal AND for the high fuel price in the shipping. The best deal most groups get is by purchasing a large dump truck load delivered to someone who can store it (10 or 15 tons). Then they resell to members. This sounds easy but you cannot just make a call and place an order. Every time a delivery is made it is often with a new trucker and possibly a new source (which is a gamble). A busy smith will use a ton or more coal a year. Most less. But even at several tons a year it is not affordable to pay for a truck load in advance unless you go into the business of reselling coal yourself (which many smiths do). I've known others to drive their own truck many hundreds of miles to the coal fields and haul the coal themselves. In a small truck this can mean loading and unloading by hand. Many pay the bagged price for coal shipped by UPS but their BEST deal is when their local group such as BAM is selling coal. More do not have this opportunity than do. This is why so many smiths are using propane. OR charcoal if they need solid fuel and the higher heat (often making their own). - guru - Friday, 02/03/12 08:58:24 EST I have heard nothing but good about the Cumberland/Elkhorn Coal Company of Louisville, TN. May have the name backwards. The Blacksmith Association of MO has a large annual conferance. Wouldn't surprise me if they had a least one vender that selling coal by the bag. Ken Scharabok - Friday, 02/03/12 11:31:31 EST Cumberland Elkhorn indeed sells the very best in Blacksmith coal, from the seweal seam. I believe the company owns the mine. To my knowledge the Pocohontas caol that lots claim to sell is a closed mine, and has been closed about 30 years as it is on fire underground. This came from the guys at Cumberland Elkhorn. They have 2 yards in Louisville, the small one on Swan street an over 100 year old coal and coke yard. They ship and receive by both rail and truck their. They also have a location in an industrial park in southwest Louisville along the Ohio River. I believe that yard is also barge capable. ABANA bought the coal for the Seatle conference from th Swan Street yard, I saw the stretch wrapped pallet of bags when I was there getting a load. A couple of months ago the rate was $512/ton loose. Very nice folks to deal with. ptree - Friday, 02/03/12 14:25:28 EST Pocahontas Coal: I remember when I was a teenager shoveling coal to feed the furnace. The Pocahontas stoker lump and coal had little sheet metal tags all through it with an Indian head and Pocahontas around the rim. Looked a little like an Indian head nickle. This was the coal I learned on and it was very good coal. - guru - Friday, 02/03/12 15:17:58 EST State EPA laws differ. When SOF&A were building at the Miami County Fairgrounds they were not permitted to store coal outdoor. They added on a side building and somewhere found bins. Once a year or so they have a large coal truck come in, dump on the parking lot and then a club crew puts it in bins and sweeps off the pavement. Ken Scharabok - Friday, 02/03/12 16:40:38 EST Coal: Finally I have something to add without asking a question. I sometimes buy from Cumberland Elkhorn on Swan Street in Louisville, KY. They have always been very helpful and tried to save me money when they could. The only thing I had a tough time with was catching them at the office between their deliveries. It has been a while since I last was there but they suggested getting to the yard before 7AM or around 4PM to be sure someone would be available. It's very good quality coal with very little klinker. - Bill - Friday, 02/03/12 20:44:21 EST Coal: Where my shop is located, there are NO zoning regulations, other than septic tank rules, because my shop is in the middle of nowhere. I can almost hear "dueling banjos" from the hills where my shop is located. About fifty miles west of me, also in the middle of nowhere, is a place called "Barklay Mountain". Back in 1986, I bought my first truckload of their coal, ten tons, which I had dropped outside of my shop. That coal burned so hot, that I decided to buy two more truckloads, at 80 dollars a ton delivered. It came from a private mine on Barklay Mountain, from an old codger named "red" Wittig. After trying some of that coal, I ordered two more ten ton truckloads, one piled in another pile outside my shop, and the last ten tons delivered down a home-made coal chute inside my shop, in a bin that I fabricated myself. This year, in 2012, I still have 14 tons left. I am sooooooooooooooo lucky to have good coal. It burns so hot and clean, that I can forge weld 7 consecutive slate shingle ripper handles to the bladestock before the fire fouls. - stewartthesmith - Sunday, 02/05/12 08:12:43 EST Stewart: A friend in Scranton saw a local TV program that had something about a shop forging the sort of items You are producing. Was it Your shop? - Dave Boyer - Sunday, 02/05/12 20:13:52 EST Dave: Two weeks ago, I had a meeting with a representative of the Small Business Administration, in the Scranton area. She told me she wanted to do a video of me in my shop, manufacturing tools, as a marketing tool. Who knows! Someone might have been videoing me without me knowing it! stewartthesmith - Monday, 02/06/12 08:10:51 EST Ken as I remember it SOFA could store outdoors they just had to install a system to catch and process all runoff (and the pile had to be on an impermeable floor). Putting the shed up was far cheaper than dealing with the rain water issues. Thomas Thomas P - Monday, 02/06/12 16:38:26 EST Stewart---I can't hear dueling banjos from my shop but I can hear Mariachi music all weekends...from several directions Thomas P - Monday, 02/06/12 16:39:37 EST