Some tools to drool over.  Image (c) 1998 Jock Dempsey WELCOME to the
Virtual Hammer-In!

This page is open to ALL for the purpose of advancing blacksmithing.
Please read the RULES before posting a message.
NOTE: This IS NOT the Guru page!

WHY THREE FORUMS? Well, this is YOUR blacksmithing forum to use for whatever you wish within the rules stated above. It is different than the Slack-Tub Pub because the messages are permanently posted and archived.
This page is NOT a chat - it is a "message board"

Our chat, the (Slack-Tub Pub), is immediate but the record of it temporary. DO NOT post permanent messages there. We refresh the "log" every 24 hours now and your message will be lost.

The Guru's Den is where I and several others try to answer ALL your blacksmithing and metalworking questions to us.

Jock Dempsey -- webmaster at anvilfire.com 07/27/98, 03/01/99, 05/20/2000, 06/16/2000


Anyone have a good remedy for blacksmith elbow?

steve -- e26fish at aol.com - Tuesday, 01/02/01 05:21:41 GMT


Steve,

Go to the iForge page, and scroll down to Demonstration Number 6, Hammer Control.

As for treating an existing problem, Ice helps.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Tuesday, 01/02/01 12:22:31 GMT


Steve, do you have a wrist band for your hammer arm ? I call it my whiners band ( grin ). It does help. Paw Paw's demo is a must read too. Ice, and the proper stretches for the forearm help to get you back to the game. I get it in the area about 4 fingers in front of the elbow sometimes.

Ten Hammers -- lforge at netins.net - Tuesday, 01/02/01 13:07:43 GMT


A freind and I are just geting started and have the basics but was wondering if there any tips or something for people just geting started

Danny -- c855 at hotmail.com - Tuesday, 01/02/01 19:45:16 GMT


A freind and I are just geting started and have the basics but was wondering if there any tips or something for people just geting started

Danny -- c855 at hotmail.com - Tuesday, 01/02/01 19:45:50 GMT


A freind and I are just geting started and have the basics but was wondering if there any tips or something for people just geting started

Danny -- c855 at hotmail.com - Tuesday, 01/02/01 19:47:01 GMT


sorry when i hit the refresh it re posted my message

Danny -- c855 at hotmail.com - Tuesday, 01/02/01 19:48:53 GMT


Just before he left to attend the freehand puttyknife-forging competitions in Helsinki, Cracked asked me to write and say no way. He feels, as I understand it, that curmudgeons are a big bore. And he is deeply shocked that you think he might be one. Gladly wolde he teche, and gladly lerne, I think is the way he put it. Or maybe Chaucer did. Or somebody.

miles undercut, reader in slag, swarf and scale -- longarc at entropy.com - Wednesday, 01/03/01 00:04:20 GMT


My site is up..Its small but a start..Learning the lingo as I go... http://www.vianet.ca/~barney TTYL

Barney -- barney at vianet.on.ca - Thursday, 01/04/01 02:15:01 GMT


Steve,
elbow problems....
Chances are very good you are holding hammer wrong. Either gripping it too hard, or perhaps thumb on top, or both.
After smithing is your forearm as tight as a drum?

Ralph -- ralphd at jps.net - Thursday, 01/04/01 16:31:08 GMT


Steve try this site. Has a lot of postings on the subject.

http://www.celticknot.com/elektric/compendium/arm-pain.shtml

I am curently treating same problem as well as a friend of mine.

Mills -- lmills at envirot.com - Thursday, 01/04/01 18:53:20 GMT


Steve try this site. Has a lot of postings on the subject.

http://www.celticknot.com/elektric/compendium/arm-pain.shtml

I am curently treating same problem as well as a friend of mine.

Mills -- lmills at envirot.com - Thursday, 01/04/01 18:53:58 GMT


Blacksmith Elbow cont'd, Steve, I too had problems with my elbow ( Farrier for 23 years). I initially thought it was just something I had to live with but discovered that it was how was holding the hammer. Over the years I had started to choke up on the hammer which puts much more shock up into the arm. When I let the hammer out and let the weight do the work instead of "pushing" the hammer down the numbness and pain has gone away. I have since retired from shoeing to do architectural blacksmithing but it was a lesson learned. Mills found the site that I foud to remedy the situation. A power hammer helps as well :) TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Saturday, 01/06/01 15:05:54 GMT


I collect old blacksmith images, tool catalogs, etc. If anyone has something laying around that they would be willing to part with please email me, thanks in advance!

Brian -- booksnpaper at aol.com - Sunday, 01/07/01 05:22:36 GMT


For Sale
5cwt (1/4 ton) Pneumatic Hammer,(all up weight approx 5ton Make;Alldays & Onions (good solid british machine), Condition; good, Location:Newcastle NSW Australia, I can arrange shipping to US or UK no problems. Email me for price as value of Australian Dollar is all over the place at the moment. We can be found at www.richmondvaleforge.com.au Hope to hear from someone in blacksmithing land. Phil Johnston

Phil Johnston -- Phil at richmondvaleforge.com.au - Monday, 01/08/01 11:55:16 GMT


Barney:

Nice looking site. I liked your links to the local museum and festivals, too. Keep up the good work.

Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at us.HSAnet.net nospam - Monday, 01/08/01 13:16:21 GMT


Bruce Blackistone ---
Thankyou.. Learning the lingo of the computer world. The Links I have on my site have supported me, so I am returning the favour..More to put on, ie pictures etc..
TTYL

Barney -- barney at vianet.on.ca - Monday, 01/08/01 22:17:34 GMT


Wootz / Damascus steel: good article in the Jan. 2001 "Scientific American" magazine. More info at: http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html

Jim Carothers -- colonel at fullnet.net - Tuesday, 01/09/01 04:27:08 GMT


Has anyone here ever seen either or both of Robb Gunters videos on basic blacksmithing? How about Jerry hoffman's Blacksmith Journal techniques? If so what did you think?

Dave

David White -- dwhite at siumed.edu - Tuesday, 01/09/01 18:31:47 GMT


Has anyone here ever seen either or both of Robb Gunters videos on basic blacksmithing? How about Jerry hoffman's Blacksmith Journal techniques? If so what did you think?

Dave

David White -- dwhite at siumed.edu - Tuesday, 01/09/01 18:32:36 GMT


David,

Never seen any of their videos, but I use Robb's SuperQuench pretty regularly. Works well for me.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Tuesday, 01/09/01 20:38:12 GMT


Paw Paw, I have made quite a few "short" run tools out of mild steel for my power hammer that have lasted over a year without much sign of wear. I was wondering if the super-quench might make these tolls longer lasting still. Tool steel is 20 times more expensive (a guess) and mild steel is in ready supply. What is your opinion? TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Wednesday, 01/10/01 02:07:15 GMT


Tim,

I think they'd last longer. There is a significant difference in the hardness of mild steel that has been super quenched from the non-magnetic point. I use mild steel (1018 according to my supplier) for 99% of what I do. Use some 4140 for hammers, but that's about the only exception.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Wednesday, 01/10/01 05:20:05 GMT


I am looking for a good working blacksmith blower or bellows for not to much money, to make knives with. If you have any info I would be grateful

Stone Speer -- stones at tisd.net - Thursday, 01/11/01 01:20:53 GMT


Hello everyone,

I'm tring to make Copper Roses could any buddy tell me where i could find a pttern and maybe some little help in this matter.

George

George -- George.francis at worldnet.att.net - Thursday, 01/11/01 18:47:17 GMT


I have a 245# hay budden anvil, another 70# anvil(old) and a 100+ # anvil what are they worth?

don -- dmurrell at gckschools.com - Friday, 01/12/01 01:55:29 GMT


Paw Paw, What's the ingredient's again (for the umpteenth time) Thanks, TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Friday, 01/12/01 04:53:15 GMT


Paw Paw, What's the ingredient's again (for the umpteenth time) Thanks, TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Friday, 01/12/01 04:54:26 GMT


Tim,

I'll get the list for you this evening. It's on another computer.

I hate computers! Had to change browsers AGAIN, so am starting all over again, dammit!

ppw

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 01/12/01 13:31:24 GMT


George: There's a demo on the iForge page of this site. Just substitute copper for steel.

Alan L -- longmire at premiernet.net - Friday, 01/12/01 14:01:27 GMT


Paw Paw, I have some horror stories with my computers, from having two hardrives crash (the second I at least had most of my business files backed up) to having my kids step on my laptop and crack the screen (yes, the screen costs more to replace than the computer) Virus's in email attachments, scanners, printers failing (alway's at the WRONG TIME) etc..., etc... etc... TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Friday, 01/12/01 14:20:43 GMT


Don, I have been looking for a 245# Hay-Budden for a while. Let me know what you want for it, I will give it a good home. TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Friday, 01/12/01 14:26:57 GMT


Tim,

Here is the recepie for:

ROB GUNTER'S SOAP QUENCH


4 1/2 gallons water
5 lbs. salt
32 oz. Dawn dish soap (blue)
8 oz. Shaklee Basic I

Stir before each use

Don't even MENTION computers to me for a while! Bah! Humbug!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 01/12/01 23:28:25 GMT


One Dozen Reasons That I Prefer “Junkyard Wars” to the Other “Reality” Shows that Afflict Television:

· They recycle!

· They work together as a team, no backstabbing or politicking.

· They compress 10 hours of planning, scrounging and construction and the next day’s contest into one hour. No dragging out of the resolution.

· It takes place in a junkyard! (Feels homey.)

· All vehicle crashes are coincidental, not a drug dealer eluding the police.

· It proves inventiveness is alive and well on both sides of the pond.

· It teaches actual “post-modern” survival skills.

· Where else can you stay in the competition by tying the sections of a failed weld together with your belt.

· Nerds, older folks and educators are not voted off. In fact, they usually triumph!

· A lot of hefty folks, but NO NAKED FAT GUYS!

· They know how to use duct tape.

· Nobody needs to be tested for STDs!

Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at us.HSAnet.net nospam - Saturday, 01/13/01 02:17:00 GMT


Excellent article on wootz / Damascus steel at:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html

Jim Carothers -- colonel at fullnet.net - Saturday, 01/13/01 04:29:34 GMT


Atli. what is the diference between the partisipants in that show to most of us?? not much i dare say.
What thy do is what i like about smithing. i can use old stuff and make new useful things from it.

OErjan -- pokerbacken at angelfire.com - Saturday, 01/13/01 21:58:11 GMT


GRINDER: I have been looking for a good grider for knifemaking and have stumbled across some realy neat plans for what looks like a nice beltgrinder for $50 and will cost about $425 to build. I was wondering if I could get a second opinion on this. The web page is- http://unigrinder.com Thanks.

josh -- Profish at voyager.net - Monday, 01/15/01 17:21:03 GMT


Sory I screwed up on the grinder page it is

http://www.unigrinder.com

josh -- Profish at voyager.net - Monday, 01/15/01 17:24:33 GMT


Sory I screwed up on the grinder page it is

http://www.unigrinder.com

josh -- Profish at voyager.net - Monday, 01/15/01 17:24:52 GMT


Josh,

Looks like a neat system to me. I think the plans are a little pricey, and you could probably get enough information to build it just by looking at the web site. Also, if you used scrounged material for the steel, you could cut the cost down quite a bit. You'd need to buy the wheels, motor, etc new, or at least good used.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Monday, 01/15/01 17:38:02 GMT


thanks pawpaw

josh -- profish at voyager.net - Monday, 01/15/01 20:15:22 GMT


Do we have the start of a Junk Yard Grinder here?

Makes sense to me. I've already got one built, but it's a bear! (wry grin)

Send pictures to Jock!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Monday, 01/15/01 22:30:51 GMT


Josh, Check out this site for a belt grinder. This guy has lots of good ideas & he sells the wheels pretty reasonably. I was given this site over in the keenjunk forum. Also check out the plans page over there, there is a good, simple plan for one that I'm working on now too by Otto Bacon.
http://www.geocities.com/beaumontmetal/
www.keenjunk.com

Mike Roth -- emeraldisleforge at emeraldisle.com - Tuesday, 01/16/01 15:25:41 GMT


Josh, Check out this site for a belt grinder. This guy has lots of good ideas & he sells the wheels pretty reasonably. I was given this site over in the keenjunk forum. Also check out the plans page over there, there is a good, simple plan for one that I'm working on now too by Otto Bacon.
http://www.geocities.com/beaumontmetal/
www.keenjunk.com

Mike Roth -- emeraldisleforge at emeraldisle.com - Tuesday, 01/16/01 15:25:55 GMT


Paw Paw, you serious about a junkyard grinder war? I got a couple to nominate for it.
Moldy

Moldy -- nope - Wednesday, 01/17/01 18:16:06 GMT


Have at 'em, I say, and let the grinders begin! I intend to build one myself sometime soon, and I'd like to see what you guys have already done before I screw up too bad.

Alan L -- longmire at premiernet.net - Thursday, 01/18/01 01:09:38 GMT


As an amateur and homeowner, I am looking for information on whether or not the zinc alloy 2600 sheets that used to be used for Hoosier cabinets and dry sinks has lead in it that would make it unsafe for counter tops or work surfaces in a kitchen redo. Don't know if this falls in the area of expertise here, but I can't seem to find an answer elsewhere. Thanks.

PC -- rscpfc6 at aol.com - Thursday, 01/18/01 17:06:42 GMT


As an amateur and homeowner, I am looking for information on whether or not the zinc alloy 2600 sheets that used to be used for Hoosier cabinets and dry sinks has lead in it that would make it unsafe for counter tops or work surfaces in a kitchen redo. Don't know if this falls in the area of expertise here, but I can't seem to find an answer elsewhere. Thanks.

PC -- rscpfc6 at aol.com - Thursday, 01/18/01 17:07:29 GMT


Moldy,

I was joking, but a lot of us use home made grinders. The one I was talking about is the one that slapped me so hard last year.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 01/19/01 02:10:32 GMT


So, has the JY grinder war started ?

Ten Hammers -- lforge at netins.net - Saturday, 01/20/01 07:11:29 GMT


So, has the JY grinder war started ?

Ten Hammers -- lforge at netins.net - Saturday, 01/20/01 07:11:45 GMT


JYGW,

Waiting to see what Jock says.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Sunday, 01/21/01 15:36:32 GMT


i need help...i am a kid and i need information on what blacksmithing is....this is for a school project

Ramza -- Ramza800 at aol.com - Tuesday, 01/23/01 06:36:10 GMT


i need help...i am a kid and i need information on what blacksmithing is....this is for a school project

Ramza -- Ramza800 at aol.com - Tuesday, 01/23/01 06:36:28 GMT


I am attempting to resaearch a former blacksmith in the New Orleans or soutd Louisiana area by the name of O.K. Barnes. Anyone have a clue how to accomplish such research? Thanks.

H. Magee -- hdmmagee at aol.com - Tuesday, 01/23/01 21:24:06 GMT


I HAVE A LARGE ANTIQUE BELT DRIVEN FORGE FOR SALE!
FOR MORE INFORMATION PLEASE CALL ME AT 580-584-3935

BOB TIDMORE -- pugsusa at valliant.net - Wednesday, 01/24/01 02:18:10 GMT


Ramza;
All the information you want is on this site, you'll have to root around for it. Check the getting started pg and the 21st century blacksmith pg for starters.

Pete F -- you bet - Wednesday, 01/24/01 09:35:46 GMT


Belt sanders;
Yeah, I built one too. A 5 hp monster that took forever and roars from it's junkyard bearings something awful.
Carl Jennings, our grand old man at CBA, built the most elegant one Ive seen, all components hung on one shaft so it is expandable .

Pete F -- yes - Wednesday, 01/24/01 09:42:50 GMT


h. magee-- check the state historical societies and ask 'em for help, for starters. Ditto ABANA chapters.

miles undercut -- longarc at entropy.com - Thursday, 01/25/01 00:25:38 GMT


Anyone who can help,

I have been trained in the art of Ish-Go-Shin-Do Swordsmanry, but I have never sought a fully-funtional sword of my own. If you could help me find a decently quick way to get one at a decent price, I would deeply appreciate it.

James J. -- kube48 at hotmail.com - Thursday, 01/25/01 01:52:41 GMT


Good evening all

Pix -- pixironart at yahoo.com - Thursday, 01/25/01 02:12:55 GMT


I am new to the art of blachsmithing

mike -- mkellogg at icehouse.net - Thursday, 01/25/01 02:51:38 GMT


I am new to the art of blachsmithing

mike -- mkellogg at icehouse.net - Thursday, 01/25/01 02:52:06 GMT


Great, Just when I thought I had everything I needed after building my air hammer, now a belt sander! Does it ever end? Back to the drawing board. I probably don't need a 10 HP three phase for this though, but...could sure take a lot of material off in a hurry (along with the top of my knuckles)TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Friday, 01/26/01 15:27:52 GMT


Tim,

I bought one of the Taiwan knockoff sanders from Harbor Freight about 12 - 15 years ago. 4 inch belt, 6 inch disk. Think I paid $79 if I remember correctly. Replaced the bearings a couple of years ago, they were a stock size, less than $20. Use aluminum oxide belts with it.
Works great.

Another tip for anyone interested. I scrounge old aquarium stands where ever I can. People throw them out all the time. They make great power tool stands.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 01/26/01 16:33:15 GMT


Paw Paw; I use an aquarium stand for my hammer/sethammer rack. I fastened two pieces of 3/4" pipe on it with just enough room for a
handle between the pipe. Did two sets one along the front bar and one along the back bar---no welding required and its currently holding 70+ hammers/sethammers and I need to scrounge a larger stand!

Thomas

Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at my-deja.com - Friday, 01/26/01 16:44:26 GMT


Does anyone know how to make a battle axe. I pay in cash.
Note: I want a big double sided blade. One rugged. One smooth

Black P -- z1000101 at midsouth.rr.com - Friday, 01/26/01 16:53:10 GMT


I have the material

Black P -- z1000101 at midsouth.rr.com - Friday, 01/26/01 16:55:51 GMT


Thomas.

Works! Every year here in Winston they have what they call "Large Item Pickup" All kinds of trash from paint cans (must be completely dried out) to refrigerators. I drive around a lot while it's going on, visit the different neighborhoods a couple of days before they are scheduled for pick up. Usually take one of the younger guys with me. You'd be amazed at what people throw away. I've picked up a total of three small acetylene bottles, traded two of them for a spare oxy bottle for the small truck rig. (I get along REAL well with my welding supplier, and I fully intend to keep it that way!) Usually find at least three aquarium stands. Most common is the ten gallon size, which is ideal for most small "Machine" tools. Once got a 55 gallon size! That one got cut up for stock, and I've kicked myself a half dozen times since then!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 01/26/01 22:45:37 GMT


The Feb. meeting of the Saltfork Craftsmen ABA will be Sat. the 17th at Andy Martin's place in Terlton, OK. Terlton is about 25 miles Wesa of Tulsa & just South of Highway 412 / Cimmaron Turnpike.
E-mail me or jmgeorge at pldi.net for additional information.

Jim Carothers -- colonel at fullnet.net - Saturday, 01/27/01 11:53:05 GMT


Junk Yard belt sanders ? To bad I am so far away. this almost sounds like a TV program from junk yard wars on TLC. Watch it every week.. Anyway, no belt sander here I am making a wood splitter from parts and pieces. 2 propnae bottles {cleaned of course} one for 50# of air and one for oil, powersteering pump with actuator removed, hoses and some iron. Anyway have fun building people and keep it save of course. Barney from North Bay Ontario..

Barney -- barney at vianet.on.ca - Sunday, 01/28/01 13:26:58 GMT


Discovered a way today to make collars with my Scothchman Ironworker. Was able to make 30 collars in under a half an hour including cutting and bending cold with the Ironworker. I had previously made collars with an arbor press (hand operated) They would have taken much longer and would have had to heat them to boot! TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Monday, 01/29/01 01:20:19 GMT


Tim,

I could learn to dislike you! (grin) Just finished a job collaring dis-similar sizes of stock together. Talk about a major pain! But got it done!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Monday, 01/29/01 13:55:02 GMT


Barney, One of my first projects ever was helping my dad make a wood splitter. We made it the same height as the truck tailgate with a big table on either side of the splitting head. Then all we had to do was roll logs off the truck and onto the table, split and then stack without ever bending over. Even big cottonwood chucks over 3 feet in diameter could be handled relatively easily.

To keep this blacksmithing related, it is not a huge jump from woodsplitter to hydraulic press. Beef up the frame, orient the ram vertically, and make provisions to change out the splitting head with dies and there you have it. (Ok, it might be a little more complicated than that, but you could use it as an aluminum can crusher too if that would help sell it to the chief financial officer.)

J. Dickson -- TheIrony at woldnet.att.net - Monday, 01/29/01 17:35:22 GMT


Where do I go to get tools for working copper

jim -- jimerinn at bellsouth.net - Tuesday, 01/30/01 02:10:34 GMT


Jim copper working tools at Centaur Forge I think they list here, or Rio Grande Tools in Albuquerque. They tend to be pricey you can make a lot of them by modifing other tools

daryl -- darylr at sympatico.ca - Tuesday, 01/30/01 02:41:36 GMT


I haven't looked here for a while.
I see you guys are discussing belt sanders! I forged a couple of files into blades last night and I'm looking for experience and opinions on belt grinders features. Burr King 1272 looks interesting and there's a Wilton square wheel that looks similar. Any knifemakers here that can tell me what machines they like? I also looked at the sites listed above and some others on the web. I'll probably make one with a 1hp 3450 motor, 2 ich wide belt, and I'd appreciate any ideas or features that I should build in for knife grinding. Horizontal or vertical belt? Back up platten or wheels? Variable speed required? 8000 ft per minute max? Any ideas experience or opinions that would get me closer to a better working machine are appreciated. Thanks!

Barney, are you building an air over oil wood splitter? If so, cool! Why one propane tank for 50# air? I like PS pumps too. Darn cheap hydraulic power. GM pumps can be set into a piece of plate welded to the end of a six inch pipe for a bigger reservoir to help get rid of the heat. Drive 'em with a 1 hp minimum electric motor bolted to the side of the pipe. They usually run at 1400 psi max and 4 gpm max at 4000 rpm. You can tweak the pressure up by taking off the outlet fitting and shimming the spring. But then you need more hp to drive them. Need about 3 hp to get the 1400 psi and 4 gpm.

And as long as I'm posting.....anyone here have any experience with small backyard cupola melting furnaces?

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Tuesday, 01/30/01 21:23:33 GMT


Tony - 50# air pushes the piston back into place, the main power in the PS pump to push cylinder out. One tank will carry the oil has the PS pump res not big enough. I have pictures of this in working order. Works very well and it is a waist height. No bending. Its main power is a 3 hp briggs and stat lawn mower engine. Its going to be my spring project. I burn wood for heat so a splitter beat out a sander or power hammer.

Barney -- barney at vianet.on.ca - Tuesday, 01/30/01 23:15:37 GMT


Barney, I'm smilin'. That is an excellent design in my not so humble opinion. :) I especially like the air return. I heat with wood too. Split everything by hand until this year. I broke down and put my uncles splitter (he wasn't using it) on the back of the tractor when I acquired a whole bunch of box elder. Darn box elder is twisty stuff and over 12" diameter just wasn't fun to split by hand any more. Maybe I'm just getting lazy.

I'm going to use another PS pump for a hydraulic press. FYI, a GM pump sits in a 4.880 hole in the reservoir. Sealed with an o-ring that comes with the pump. Plate should be about 1/2" thick to make sure there's enough room for the o-ring. I have a bunch of rebuilt pumps, but no extra reservoirs and my local boneyards think they are worth something. I'd be interested in the splitter pics when you get it done.

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Wednesday, 01/31/01 01:05:17 GMT


Can someone tell me where to find coming events on this website?...Dan

dan -- ddshutt at aol.com - Wednesday, 01/31/01 01:33:56 GMT


Tony - Pictures not till spring..We just had 28 centameters of snow dumped on us..Mother nature had to move it around abit...I have some small pictures of the various parts now but thats about all.. TTYL Barney

Barney -- barney at vianet.on.ca - Wednesday, 01/31/01 02:46:13 GMT


Dan,

Not sure what you mean by coming events. Here on this site, or around the blacksmithing world?

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Wednesday, 01/31/01 03:22:47 GMT


Greetings. I'm looking into air hammers such as the Big Blu, the Bull, etc. Does anybody know about the Bull air hammer? Is there anybody out there who has used this hammer or can somebody give me some feedback. It would be much appreciated. thanks.

kevin - Wednesday, 01/31/01 03:54:51 GMT


Paw Paw, For many years I believed that the only way to Blacksmith was to do it the "old" way. I would only forge weld everything! There were some things that I couldn't because of size etc... One day a fellow Blacksmith say's to me " What do you think they would have done 200 years ago if you offered to let them use your mig welder? They sure as shi* wouldn't have turned it down! That day I began to think like a 21st century smith. As long as the final product is done with care, craftsmanship, and attention to detail then no one REALLY cares how you got there. (Just my personal and humble opinion) Your thoughts? TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Wednesday, 01/31/01 05:08:41 GMT


Tim,

Other than the fact that 200 years ago they'd have thought your MIG was magic, I agree completely!

It's important for ust to KNOW the traditional methods. It's important for us to be able to USE the traditional methods.

But we ALSO have to make a profit if we are going to blacksmith as a business! We CAN NOT compete with the Taiwan tin and Mexican mess that is on the market, if we do not use modern methods.

I've got a MIG. I've got an oxy/acetylene rig. I've got a horizontal grinder. I've got a stand grinder. I've got a belt sander/grinder. I've got a gas forge.

I use ALL of them!

NOW, When I demonstrate for the public, I use a coal forge,and a bellows for air blast. Why?

Because that's what the public wants to see! In other words, salesmanship. Do I use almost all tradtional techniques when I demonstrate? Yep! Why? Again, because that's what the public wants to see.

My thoughts, my personal (and Not so humble grin) opinion!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw2paw-paws-forge.com - Wednesday, 01/31/01 05:18:00 GMT


What people often forget is that blacksmiths darn near worked themselves out of existence. Why?

Because they were not ON the cutting edge of technology, they WERE the cutting edge of technology.

Look at the names of some famous blacksmiths. Or men who at least were trained as smiths.

Ford - Before he started fooling with gas engines
Deere - Before he started making tractors
Whitney - Before he invented the cotton gin
McCormick - Before he invented the harvester
Orville and Wilbur Wright - Before they started repairing bicycles and trying to act like birds.

The list could go on for a hundred more names. We don't know them all, and never will.

But if they'd had a mig, it sure as heck wouldn't have gathered dust in the corner of the shop!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Wednesday, 01/31/01 05:24:30 GMT


For those looking for mica sheets I found a cheap supply. Tar Heel Mica co. Is offering 36"x36" shellac or amber color for around $20.00 a sheet. They gave a per pound price of $6.92/lb. The other cheapest price I found was $39.00/lb. BIG difference!

Pete -- Ravnstudio at aol.com - Wednesday, 01/31/01 17:46:08 GMT


The # for Tar Heel Mica is 828-765-4535

Pete -- Ravnstudio at aol.com - Wednesday, 01/31/01 21:52:03 GMT


PPW & 'traditional methods'

Folks I almost always ask the critic or 'idiot'(you figure which one)
who asks why I am not doing something in the 'traditional' way....
In answer I get up on my soapbox(grin), and then ask the person, "Exactly which traditional method are ytou talking about?" "Are you talking traditional for the early iron age? Or perhaps during the Crusades?" "Or are we talking traditional Japanese swordsmithing?" Then I point out that what I am currently doing is 'traditional' for here and now..... Usually shuts them up (grin)
Of course it is not because I am large enough and intense enough to scare them (VBG)

I do like to do things the hard way... by hand that is, but if I could get a power hammer I would in a heartbeat.... And I plan on building a 2" X 72" belt sander...... and get a MIG and stick welder... and so on......

Ralph -- ralphd at jps.net - Wednesday, 01/31/01 23:48:26 GMT


Any body out there got any good ideas about building a long oven 60 inchs for heat treating?

Cy Swan -- cyswan at rosenet.net - Thursday, 02/01/01 01:55:40 GMT


PPW, I knew this might start a healthy discussion. You might be interested to know that I put about 15 collars on the wrong side of the gate I'm working on today! Lost all advances of technology through sheer stupidity. TC :(

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Thursday, 02/01/01 03:47:31 GMT


Ralph - I suppose you could make products entirely in the "traditional method" (assuming that they mean all by hand, no power, no electric or gas welding). Question is, are the idiots wanting a "traditional method" product willing to pay for all the extra time, effort, and the special "hand made" fee that that would entail?

Sue D. Nimh -- - Thursday, 02/01/01 04:18:47 GMT


Traditional methods: I like all that has been said above. My admittedly selfish thoughts are as follows....

Life is short. Use whatever methods are fun for you! Sometimes that will mean giving the kibitzers what they want, sometimes maybe not.

I built a sizable JYH and it will move lots of iron. I get more satisfaction and fun from the hammer and anvil. And I really like how quiet it is when the iron is in the fire. No machinery running but the quiet furnce blower for the blast. I want to and I am learning the manual methods. But if I was trying to make money, The power hammer would be it. And a gas forge, etc. I suppose I'll feel better if I make most of the time saving power tools rather than buying them. But that's just me. And Tim, I really want an ironworker! (grin) Are you making your own tooling for it, or did you get a bunch of tooling with it?

Cy, have you looked at Don Fogg's website (links page)? He has a heat treat oven. Not as long as you want, but it should be scalable. Pipe shell, blower propane burners, temp controller, etc. Yo just might need to add a couple more burners and thermocouples.

Barney, whenever on the pics. I just like to see the good stuff other people do. Nothing like a good idea turned into a working piece of equipment.

Tony -- tca_b at milwpcnospam.com - Thursday, 02/01/01 12:20:29 GMT


Tim,

Damn I hate that! And yes, I made the same mistake and had to take it off and switch it. (I didn't have near as many collars as you did.)

Cy,

If you're planning on used a five foot oven for heat treating, how are you going to handle a 5 foot long piece of limp spagetti?

Psuedonim,

Not even funny. Currently there is a virus being attached to messages with the sender being listed as hahahahahahahah Anybody you know?

Tony,

We think in much the same ways. I do a lot of "tradtional" stuff. The customers that respect that are willing to pay for it. The ones that are not willing to pay for it, I don't want as customers. But since I'm retired, I can afford that. Someone trying to make a living may not have that luxury.


Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Thursday, 02/01/01 14:00:01 GMT


I have avoided this discussion as it hss made its way through various groups and organizations that I have been a part of for the last ten years or so. I believe that in life you have to choose your battles and traditional/welder is one that I consider a non issue. This site is one of the best on the web for smiths. It offers more and seems to attract more people than any other. Beginners come here for answers. That is where my battle lies.
Let me start by saying that I do not wish to insult anyone. I wish this only as a reminder of our responsibilties to those who are new to the craft. What the heck's an ado and why should there be any further of it? Here are five (hopefully) salient points for your perusal.

1. There are many aspects to the craft of metal working. Traditional methods are some of those aspects. To disparage those methods or techniques, or to tell beginners that they are not viable is to disservice and harm the craft. Any justification is merely smoke and mirrors.

2. There are many people, established in the craft, whose products are not commensurate with their skill level or ability. This is due, in part, to a lack of good information about what is possible in this craft. To not facillitate reaching the highest possible skill level by disparaging a set of techniques is to disservice and harm the craft.

3. The attraction to this craft, for most, is in part related to self sufficiency. The idea that beautiful and functional objects can be created with nothing more than "a few hand tools and a stern look" is indeed alluring. To propagate a myth of dependancy on fancy and expensive tools is to disservice and harm the craft.

4. The two most common arguments I hear from people attacking "traditionalism" are not only fabricated but entirely illogical. To claim that blacksmithing "died out" because of the inabilty of individual smiths to grasp and come to the forefront of the industrial revolution, while simultaneously asserting that an historic smith, given the chance would have used any and all modern contrivances to speed his work, is sheer lunacy. Not only are these arguments self defeating by virtue of being diametrically opposed, they show ignorance of and apathy for historic fact. Ignoring the history of those that came before us is to disservice and harm the craft.

5. A close third in these arguments is the ever popular: "we simply cannot compete with X foreign market". This is drivel. Aside from comparing apples to crap you buy at wal-mart, it furthers mediocrity by assuming that assembly line garbage is good work, by default, in the name of competition. To lower our status to that of, unskilled, underpaid, third world sweat shop competitors is to disservice and harm the craft.

I know well that competition for money is stiff. People choose their own methods. There is nothing wrong with the description that reads: Forged and fabricated. When answering querants as to the virtues of different techniques I always include the modern. I do so without judgement because I am happy with what I am doing. To allow our egos to answer for us is to include a host of insecurities and fears with the answer. Make no mistake, this is a disservice and harm to the craft. We must be careful what we say. Give everyone a chance to experience different techniques for themselves, and then choose.

smudge -- mccarthymp at hotmail.com - Thursday, 02/01/01 15:18:26 GMT


Sue, actually yes. So far all my clients are willing to pay for my skill and effort. Not that I have mant clients.....
Before I accept the job, I ask what they are looking for and I discuss the different methods of manufacture. They almost always go for the hand work(ie almost no power tools) Since they are paying for it I do not mind making it that way. But once again, I do like power tools. And I plan on getting more of them..... Just need to get more clients so I can afford to buy more power tools.....

Ralph -- ralphd at jps.net - Thursday, 02/01/01 16:13:47 GMT


PPW - Sorry, I wasn't even thinking about it when I put down "ha....". I actually got the same virus and was rather angrified at whoever wrote and sent it.

Sue D. Nimh -- sorry - Thursday, 02/01/01 18:34:51 GMT


Smudge,

You are of course fully entitled to your opinion. But when you say:

> 4. The two most common arguments I hear from people attacking
> "traditionalism" are not only fabricated but entirely illogical. To > claim that blacksmithing "died out" because of the inabilty of
> individual smiths to grasp and come to the forefront of the
> industrial revolution, while simultaneously asserting that an > historic smith, given the chance would have used any and all modern > contrivances to speed his work, is sheer lunacy. Not only are these > arguments self defeating by virtue of being diametrically opposed, > they show ignorance of and apathy for historic fact. Ignoring the
> history of those that came before us is to disservice and harm the > craft.

I am equally entitled to dis-agree. And I do. And when you say:

> 5. A close third in these arguments is the ever popular: "we simply > cannot compete with X foreign market". This is drivel. Aside from
> comparing apples to crap you buy at wal-mart, it furthers mediocrity > by assuming that assembly line garbage is good work, by default, in > the name of competition. To lower our status to that of, unskilled, > underpaid, third world sweat shop competitors is to disservice and > harm the craft.

I am entitled to violently dis-agree. And I do.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Thursday, 02/01/01 18:37:04 GMT


Tony and Barney,

I never thought about using power steering pumps before. Sounds like a great, low cost idea. Will they produce enough pressure and flow to move a forging press at a reasonable speed? (I just like the idea right now, I'd have to do a lot of study to even ask the right questions.) Do you guys like the air return because it doesn't take power away from the hydraulic? Can air and oil run into the same controller or will initial stroke and return be controlled separately? While we're on the subject of hydraulics, does anybody have use for a 10 ft long cylinder I have just laying around?

J. Dickson -- TheIrony at woldnet.att.net - Thursday, 02/01/01 19:30:19 GMT


Smudge,

I have to agree with Paw Paw on this one, too.

Mike

Mike Roth -- emeraldisleforge at emeraldisle.com - Thursday, 02/01/01 21:31:06 GMT


Mike,

Smudge used a very devious and dis-honest technique in his initial message. Let's look at his paragraph closely for a second.

4. The two most common arguments I hear from people attacking "traditionalism" are not only
fabricated but entirely illogical. To claim that blacksmithing "died out" because of the inabilty of
individual smiths to grasp and come to the forefront of the industrial revolution, while simultaneously
asserting that an historic smith, given the chance would have used any and all modern contrivances
to speed his work, is sheer lunacy. Not only are these arguments self defeating by virtue of being
diametrically opposed, they show ignorance of and apathy for historic fact. Ignoring the history of
those that came before us is to disservice and harm the craft.

There are actually TWO statements in that paragraph.

1.To claim that blacksmithing "died out" because of the inabilty of
individual smiths to grasp and come to the forefront of the industrial revolution,

and

2. while simultaneously
asserting that an historic smith, given the chance would have used any and all modern contrivances
to speed his work, is sheer lunacy.


The problem is that no one IN THIS FORUM made the first statement. It may have been made in other forums, but not in this one. Thus, to label those of us in this forum who have made the second statement as lunatics is decietful. Or stupid.

Neither of which I have time for.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 02/02/01 01:52:12 GMT


You're gettin' a lot of acorns lately, Paw Paw, you old blind hog! (BIG grin, darn it.)

Alan L -- longmire at premiernet.net - Friday, 02/02/01 02:41:29 GMT


Paw Paw, I didn't see your response to Smudge here before I posted tonight on the guru page. Unfortunately, some customers will always be a pain. The ability to choose your customers is a good place to be. It's hard for me to take a disrespectful customer and it would be harder still to do it with smithing. When I get some smithing customers, I guess we'll see. As we all know, bad customers are not only in smithing.

Yesterday, I almost (and may still have) trashed a multi million dollar deal for the company I work for. At least I think I still work there. The general manager of the potential customer was spouting about how he wants our company to provide all of their hydraulic swivel business. They currently make and design their own and they have huge warranty costs because their designs stink. We've been trying to get their business for over a year and have expended well over $50,000 on prototypes and my time with no orders from them yet. The biggest barrier to doing a good job for them was their engineers wouldn't talk to me and share their problems and design information. This general manager was saying how we need to be partners and share information. I explained that I was glad he felt that way and told him that we were having problems getting information from them and it was making our partnership expensive for us. His response was to tell me that is the cost of doing business and we should absorb it. I told him that didn't sound like much of a partnership and I couldn't give him the lowest cost that way. I guess big general managers don't like being talked to that way. He packed up his briefcase, said he didn't think I had the right attitude and said he was going to talk to the competition. Bottom line was that he was lying about being a partner. I hate guys who lie and use the buzz words on top of it. Wasn't the first time and won't be the last. My boss (president) didn't like it and wooed the jerk back to the table. Later he told me that I only said what he wanted to say, but didn't because he's responsible for keeping a bunch of the workers busy. We're a bit slow now and could use the business. There's that mouth to feed thing again! Human nature, what a concept.

J Dickson, I don't know what Ford or Chrysler pumps put out, but GM truck PS pumps put out 1400psi or so and about 4 gpm at close to 4000 rpm. They can be tweaked higher in pressure and flow with modifications, but then you are adding expense to get more flow. If you have a cylinder bore size in mind, I can do the math and tell you how fast it would be. But it won't be anywhere near the speed of an air or mechanical hammer. I assume Barney is using the compressed air to act as a spring on the return side oil to speed up the return stroke. The air does not go through the valve. It stays captive in the propane tank on top of the oil. I always can find a use for a hydraulic cylinder! Hmmmm, Barney! A 10 foot log splitter? Split the whole log and then chunk it up? I was going to do that with a big old fork lift I used to have. The hydraulic press I was speaking of will be for general shop work and maybe a little light duty ironworker stuff. That's if I can get some EDM time at work for some dies.

Cripes, I'm wordy tonight. Time to go say g'night to the family.

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Friday, 02/02/01 04:01:49 GMT


Alan,

And they're all settling in just above my belt buckle! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paw's-forge.com - Friday, 02/02/01 04:25:35 GMT


Tony,

I read your response on the guru's page.

Sometimes, you HAVE to choose your customer to retain your integrity.
You mentioned something about that, and I agree. Example.

Couple of years ago, lady at a show brought me a set of andirons. They had the built in hook on the front of both of them for a spit.
She asked if I could get any wrought iron to make a spit from, rather than using mild steel. I told her I would check and let her know.

Grandpa Daryl was kind enough to send me a piece. I told her that I had gotten some, and gave her a price. She wrote back accepting the price, and asking me to NOT put my touch mark on it. I refused, because I'm not going to make instant antiques for anyone.

Never heard any more from her, and frankly I could not care less.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 02/02/01 04:30:10 GMT


http://www.vianet.ca/~barney has been updated..More snow has fallen today. Up to 35 centameters..Kepp hammering folks spring will be here soon.


Barney -- barney at vianet.on.ca - Friday, 02/02/01 13:31:25 GMT


Braney,

Nice looking page!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 02/02/01 13:38:27 GMT


BARNEY,

Sorry about the typo!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 02/02/01 14:59:52 GMT


Sue,

Accepted, stuff happens to all of us. I'm not immune, either. (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Friday, 02/02/01 15:02:11 GMT


Barney, I echo Paw Paw... Nice site.

Paw Paw, the right approach with the andirons, no doubt. Ya gotta wonder how those people sleep at night.

Smudge, saw your latest post on the guu page just now. All is good. Sounds like we certainly agree on foreign labor issues. Not to beat a dead horse, but if I have it correctly, it sounds like you think the guru page makes traditional smithing sound bad to the newcomers. If so, how? I'm a relative newbie, but it seems to me that there is a pretty balanced picture painted about the advantages and disadvantages of traditional manual smithing as well as newer power tool enhanced methods. And the newcomers are left to decide on their own. Am I missing something?

Tony -- tca_b at onmapsmilwpc.com - Friday, 02/02/01 16:56:40 GMT


Tony,
No I dont think the page, the guru or the site is doing anything wrong in particular. In fact if I were an adept computer user that message would not have been posted on guru's page at all! I got disconnected and dont how that happened! (In fact youll notice if you read the one in this forum, its different cause I rewrote the whole thing when I thought I lost it!) It isn't so much individual attitudes Im worried about, and Im sorry Paw-Paw got offended when he thought it was. Its more of a general trend. Yes I have seen folks ask questions and get answers that would lead them to believe they need expensive equipment. Ive seen folks in the Pub get downright scrappy when someone has mentioned "traditionalism". My only concern is that this site reaches many! People are impressionable and they look up to us as established metal workers. (Heck, Im not even good and its true of me!) when people are told they can't do this without modern gear, or that there is no way or opportunity to do traditional work and still make a living, they are going to believe it. When that happens we lose people who would end up in museums or private traditional shops, and the end result is bad for the craft at large.
I dont want to mention names, but think of some of the important traditional icons of this craft. Where would we be if their teachers had told them that "traditionalism" was non viable? A puzzle without all its pieces makes a dang poor picture!

smudge -- mccarthymp at hotmail.com - Friday, 02/02/01 17:35:45 GMT


Tony,
No I dont think the page, the guru or the site is doing anything wrong in particular. In fact if I were an adept computer user that message would not have been posted on guru's page at all! I got disconnected and dont how that happened! (In fact youll notice if you read the one in this forum, its different cause I rewrote the whole thing when I thought I lost it!) It isn't so much individual attitudes Im worried about, and Im sorry Paw-Paw got offended when he thought it was. Its more of a general trend. Yes I have seen folks ask questions and get answers that would lead them to believe they need expensive equipment. Ive seen folks in the Pub get downright scrappy when someone has mentioned "traditionalism". My only concern is that this site reaches many! People are impressionable and they look up to us as established metal workers. (Heck, Im not even good and its true of me!) when people are told they can't do this without modern gear, or that there is no way or opportunity to do traditional work and still make a living, they are going to believe it. When that happens we lose people who would end up in museums or private traditional shops, and the end result is bad for the craft at large.
I dont want to mention names, but think of some of the important traditional icons of this craft. Where would we be if their teachers had told them that "traditionalism" was non viable? A puzzle without all its pieces makes a dang poor picture!

smudge -- mccarthymp at hotmail.com - Friday, 02/02/01 17:36:08 GMT


Barney. great site. just one thing it would help reading if you made text and background slightly more contrasting. i had some dificulty reading it on my old screen. otherwise it was good, heh even great.

OErjan -- pokerbacken at angelfire.com - Friday, 02/02/01 21:59:34 GMT


Hello

Matt - Friday, 02/02/01 22:31:52 GMT


I own a power hammer (#50) made by Handt Tractor Co. of Waterloo Iowa Has anyone any literature on this hammer. Made in 1890.

Bob Rosenfeld -- bob-rosenfeld at prodigy.net - Saturday, 02/03/01 01:09:32 GMT


I own a power hammer (#50) made by Handt Tractor Co. of Waterloo Iowa Has anyone any literature on this hammer. Made in 1890.

Bob Rosenfeld -- bob-rosenfeld at prodigy.net - Saturday, 02/03/01 01:10:00 GMT


Two Johnson Gas Blacksmith Forges on eBay. One is item number:

553199023

The other is Item Number:

553193707

I won't tell you the prices, you wouldn't believe me. If you are interested, go take a look. These units develop
370,000 BTU.

BTW, the interior dimensions on these forges are:

27" X 8" X 7"

So you can heat a BIG billet in them!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Saturday, 02/03/01 21:38:32 GMT


Here is the URL to an on-line blacksmithing manual for use in school or shop. http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/chla/chla-cgi?notisid=ABN5768

Jim Carothers -- colonel at fullnet.net - Sunday, 02/04/01 13:39:37 GMT


Jim Carothers, thanks a bunch. I looked at a couple of pages of the manual. Some methods I haven't seen elsewhere.

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Sunday, 02/04/01 14:09:55 GMT


Jim C.

Excellent reference. I'm going to see what I can find out about getting a copy of that!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Sunday, 02/04/01 14:42:25 GMT


Another good on-line book is at: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/blacksmith/farmshop.html
Thanks to Mills a new member of the Saltfork Craftsmen here in OK for leading me to this one.

Jim Carothers -- colonel at fullnet.net - Monday, 02/05/01 03:38:25 GMT


Thinking about "traditionalism" and the craft---you should browse over at the neo-tribal metalsmiths. Lots of folks trying for a smithing "minimalism"

even one fellow supporting himself knifemaking with *NO* electric power tools! Not what I would opt for; but I admire his dedication and his ability to locate the necessary group of folks to sell to.

Many folk claim something *can't* be done when what they mean is that they are not willing to make the compromises to do so. It is more a personal choice and should *not* have moral connotations to it as long as they are up front on how they make the stuff they sell.


For a hoot, we have a local fellow learning to smith who is spending time replicating the stuff sold cheaply in catalogs. I feel that he has chosen poor designs to copy; but it it's what he wants to do.

Thomas

Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at my-deja.com - Monday, 02/05/01 17:51:22 GMT


To All,
Recently I had been looking for screen for fireplace screen. I work for a family owned hardware chain in New England. I asked the buyer who purchases screen for door and window replacement if his source also carried the type of screen I was looking for. Today he told me he had ordered me some and it would be arriving within a week. Looks like I have a good source and if anyone need to get some I will be glad to sell any surplus I may have. Contact me at the e-mail address below.
Mark Suchocki--

Mark Suchocki -- dilligaf at net1plus.com - Monday, 02/05/01 23:19:16 GMT


To All,
Recently I had been looking for screen for fireplace screen. I work for a family owned hardware chain in New England. I asked the buyer who purchases screen for door and window replacement if his source also carried the type of screen I was looking for. Today he told me he had ordered me some and it would be arriving within a week. Looks like I have a good source and if anyone need to get some I will be glad to sell any surplus I may have. Contact me at the e-mail address below.
Mark Suchocki--

Mark Suchocki -- dilligaf at net1plus.com - Monday, 02/05/01 23:20:54 GMT


Thomas, well said! Occasionally, I try to get on the neo-tribal site, but for some reason or other, I can't. Maybe settings or something. I'll troubleshoot that some day.

Paw Paw.... outstanding story! I look forward to the other chapters! And a writer too. I smell miniseries. The public would love it and it would do the world good.

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Wednesday, 02/07/01 13:26:25 GMT


Tony, after having some problems with the forum after it had moved to the knife site we're back at the *old* location:

pub4.ezboard.com/ftheneotribalmetalsmithstribalnow

(hope that moused over correctly...)

Come in and join the fun of smithing with minimal start-up costs (build a forge using kitty litter, use a hunk of rock for an anvil)

Thomas aka Bog Iron

Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at my-deja.com - Wednesday, 02/07/01 17:57:21 GMT


Thomas, thanks for the invite. I'll do that. Can I ask you a question here on anvil rocks? What rocks work well? I have some hard limestone slabs that I bought (40 tons) a few years back to use as sidewalk slabs. Used that instead of pouring concrete. These slabs are up to 4' by 10' and from 3 to 10" thick. When the Valders quarry blasts big rock out of the quarry to cut up for achitectural stone, they have to cut the rough slabs off the side of the chuck that comes off the wall. They use a 10 foot diameter diamond blade to cut the slabs off and then cut the rectangular stone. So one side and sometimes the edges of the slabs have a very flat cut. Flatter than many used anvils and about the same as a grave marker. I have a bunch left over. I could try forging on them, but they are buried in snow and ice now, so I thought I'd ask. If they are acceptable, then I'll try it. And if any neotribals are in the area of East central Wisconsin, they would be welcome to come and get some chunks from me for the cost of a beer or two. I also have some fairly large fieldstone, did masonry for a while. Some of the local glacially deposited fieldstone is a hard, tough black/green igneous? looking kind of stone. Darn heavy. Probably would work better than the limestone, but I don't think I have any flatish ones. Any thoughts?

I was aksing about cupola experience a while back. In the last week or so I received Stewart Marshall's backyard cupola book and CD ($40) from him and Kirk's cupola book ($30) from Lindsay books. Both are
excellent references in my opinion. Kirk is very detailed. Marshall is plenty of detail and to the point for backyard work. I even found a coke source yesterday. A local lime kiln that I just designed some lube stuff for uses coke in their kiln burner. I can get my limestone and coke from the same place! Ahh, the gods must be with me. Refractory goes in the shell tomorrow. Hopefully I won't vaporize my feet off with the first melt.

Good weekend all!

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Friday, 02/09/01 21:58:37 GMT


If you are in the Enid, OK area on Sunday afternoon (Feb. 11), drop into the Autry Tech Center open house. There will be several members of the Saltfork Craftsmen ABA on hand for blacksmithing presentations. Look for us in the welding shop.

Jim Carothers -- colonel at fullnet.net - Saturday, 02/10/01 11:36:00 GMT



justin - Saturday, 02/10/01 23:09:19 GMT


looking for info about forging one piece spurs

justin - Saturday, 02/10/01 23:11:39 GMT


forging a one pice spur is no big deal
start with a pice of 3/4sq about 4 in long
split (with hot cutter) two and a half in back from one end
(use a blunt rad punch at the end of the split)
go to the vice clamp with splits up and lay out to form a Tee
upsetting the center to about oneand a quater in with
now hammer out the bands to about 1-1/4 width (keeping both sides even)
then shape the shank and split for rowell
add rivetts for straps (and swilvels if you wont)
mount rowels
and that is about all thear is to it

Bill Epps -- B-Epps at besmithy.com - Sunday, 02/11/01 19:45:36 GMT


Bill,

Could spurs be made without a rowel? Sorta like a prod? Not a sharp point of course.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Sunday, 02/11/01 21:45:20 GMT


I was wondering if anybody has heard of anvils that are marked Dein Sweden there is a star above the name and the wieght is marked in lbs.
thanks for any help
Justin

Justin -- jtt at afnetinc.com - Monday, 02/12/01 01:54:31 GMT


Spurs without rowels? Sure, why not? I have a pair without rowels my daughter used on her pony, worked fine for her.
Arabian/english spurs are without rowels most of the time. With their thin skin you wouldn't want to poke too hard on an arabian, you just might end up in orbit!
How about some damascas spurs? Or a pair made from railroad spikes?
Sorry it's late, and I'm getting goofy.
Moldy

Moldy -- nope - Monday, 02/12/01 07:43:24 GMT


Paw Paw,
spurs... yes! Usually a blunt tip.(Like some arrows for small game)
Tab (from the pub) has been making damascus bits and spurs....

Ralph -- ralphd at jps.net - Monday, 02/12/01 19:51:29 GMT


Moldy -n- Ralph,

Shows you how much I've worn spurs. I've been riding for over 40 years. Never wore a set of spurs in my life until I put on the Union Uniform. (grin) Well trained horse, spurs are not necessary.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Monday, 02/12/01 21:00:31 GMT


Spurs,
Use 'em only with lazy horse that needs some acceleration.
Look in your weatern mail catalogs, they show several styles without rowels. some are just blunt (swelled ends) some are just a small rod to extend the inside heel.

Nolan -- Ndorsey at ck.tec.ok.us - Monday, 02/12/01 21:21:04 GMT


Hey does anyone out there have any plans for a powered spit or rotisserie for over a open fire? Some one has ask me to make one and while I have some ideas I am interested to see if anyone has a better solution than I do. Thanks guys. Gary.

Gary -- boosmith at zdnetonebox.com - Monday, 02/12/01 23:45:09 GMT


Rocks for anvils. I don't think Limestone would be a good choice. I think you would end up generating a fine un-slaked lime dust during use. The ultra mafic glacial erratics sound like a better choice. You don't need much of a flat spot to do a lot of forging and the rock pounders do say you do end up with a textured surface on the metal.

Spurs: the early spurs were just prick spurs the rowel spurs are more "high middle ages" and later. (a trick for rowels---look for replacement wheels for star wheel grinding wheel dressers)

I did do a set of spurs from RR spikes before as a joke---left the original spike head on as the knob and used a paint pen to write "tres macho" and "stique jocque" on them....then there was the set of "boffer" spurs I made for a friend so he could wear them on his water bed...

Thomas

Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at my-deja.com - Tuesday, 02/13/01 14:40:56 GMT


Gary, what tech level? Do you want to pick up an electric spit turner at the thrift store and go from there or do you want to get "Mechanics Exercises" by Joseph Moxon pub 1703 and make the clockwork spit jack he has plans for. Or do you want to split the difference and get an old wind up victrola mechanism and adapt that for turning a spit?

Thomas

Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at my-deja.com - Tuesday, 02/13/01 14:44:55 GMT


HI,
I am looking for information on how to get started in smithing. I am a tool an die apprentice and would like to branch out. I live in Toronto.

Jeremy Brett -- Jbrettkeyplastics at yahoo.com - Tuesday, 02/13/01 16:53:02 GMT


Thomas,

RR Spike Spurs?! I may have to do a set of those, just for the grins and giggles!

I've seen a spit turner that was basically just two rocks and a leather strap. Wind up one rock, and then let the rocks shift back and forth till they reached equilibrium. But I've never been able to make one work. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Tuesday, 02/13/01 16:53:32 GMT


Thomas, you kill me! Waterbed spurs! Still chuckling. I'm trying to visualize the woman that shared the waterbed. But then, I guess I'm assuming it was a woman, not a solo act or some "other" partner. Gotta keep it clean for the audience I guess. (grin)

Rocks. Thanks for the info. I'll try the big green/black mamba's if I get the urge to be neotribal. I have to move a big'un this weekend. There's a curve on my property after a long straight stretch and a couple of kids full of liquid stupidity decided to go straight into my woods instead of follow the road on Saturday night. They tried to move one of those big black rocks with a Mazda GLC. The rock won. Couldn't get em out without the jaws of life. Both are OK. Car was way totalled. God looks after drunks and idiots I guess. Since this happens about every 10 years, I figure it's time to move the rock and just let 'em hit the trees. I think I can get it with the endloader. As I was helping the wrecker guy drag the mangled Mazda onto the deck, I noticed that the rock has a nice depression that should hold some charcoal nicely and a flatish spot about 2 feet over. Funny what you see when your perspective changes. I'm seeing forges and anvils in big black rocks. Hmmmm, I guess I should be careful who I say that to. Yes, I'll be careful about the rock exploding with the forge heat.

Spit: Here's my input, assuming this is for a party, not just a chicken toaster.... 1/2 hp electric motor, belt drive reduction to worm gear speed reducer driving spit shaft at 4 rpm. Spit shaft of stainless pipe running in "Graphalloy" graphite bushings. They take the heat real well. Two sliding 4 tine stainless forks on stainless shaft collar that clamps to shaft after driven into the meat from both ends. Tripod supports on both sides of the fire. This will turn a good sized pig or lots of turkeys. Make a radiant heat shield for the gearbox and motor out of polished aluminum or stainless (better) sheet. I've done similar for oil tank pig roasters. BTW, it seems to work better to have the pig not directly over the fire since the dripping fat makes the flames come up too high and burn the pig. Keep the fire(s) just off to the side(s) and let radiant heat do the work. Inject the pig with butter/wine/herbs mixture using cow syringe from farm supply store.
Now I'm hungry! (grin)

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Tuesday, 02/13/01 17:40:31 GMT


good afternoon, my name is john i live in springfield il. bear with me , this is my first time at trying to contact someone online. i am interested in learning to do some blacksmith work. what i need is a source of suiteable coal. can anyone point me in the right direction?

John Pritchett -- JTSS454 at famvid.com - Tuesday, 02/13/01 20:22:29 GMT


Tony,

Sounds good! What time are you serving? (grin)

John,

Not sure what you have available in your area, but go to the links page here at anvilfire, and contact Bruce Wallace. He'll sell you some at a reasonable rate.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Tuesday, 02/13/01 21:16:52 GMT


Paw Paw, sorry, I was so hungry I had to go eat some most excellent leftover spaghetti and meatballs. Maybe we can work something out when ABANA is in La Crosse, WI. I've made a couple of the oil tank pig roasters and I should be able to borrow one. Can substitute virgin olive oil for the butter for the healthy crowd. And no fighting over the jowls! (grin)

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Tuesday, 02/13/01 21:31:09 GMT


Tony,

OK for you! I fixed Fettuchini Alfredo with chicken and broccoli sauce for supper. (grin)

Jowls is one part of the pig that I WON'T fight over! (nother gring)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Tuesday, 02/13/01 22:17:08 GMT


I have just acquired a tire bender and am looking for any information about its proper use. Any one have a copy of an owners manual by chance that they would be willing to photo copy? Any advice would be most welcome

Tim Kaufman -- falconforg at aol.com - Wednesday, 02/14/01 01:30:00 GMT


I am looking for a source of tool steel particularly S1.
Thanks.

boneman -- wtrinehart at earthlink.net - Wednesday, 02/14/01 03:30:32 GMT


John Pritchett,

I too live in Springfield. I get my coal from City Coal and Asphalt in Pekin. I am at work and do not have the # with me. Email me and there is a chance I will remember to get it for you.

Dave White

David White -- dwhite at siumed.edu - Wednesday, 02/14/01 15:25:22 GMT


Shoot you should have seen the marinated buffalo steaks we had at the SOFA triphammer building course---I din't know meat that thick was still legal!

As for the boffer spurs---I had a reputation amongst my circle of friends to give presents that everyone *else* thought were perfectly suited to them---his wife nearly did herself an injury laughing, (he was my roommate in college I was their best man...)

For an "outdoor" pig roaster we put a removable section of Al corrugated roofing overtop the spit to help hold in/reflect heat and keep the rain off the meat and fire.

Thomas

Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at my-deja.com - Wednesday, 02/14/01 23:02:08 GMT


Feb. meeting of the Saltfork Craftsmen ABA will be the 17th at Andy Martin's about 1-1/2 miles East of Terlton, OK. E-mail for driving directions: colonel at fullnet.net

Jim Carothers -- colonel at fullnet.net - Thursday, 02/15/01 03:43:32 GMT


Bill, thanks for the spur making advice.I also enjoyed some of the responses fueld by my question....any body out there live in the n.e. region of Texas....

J. W. Beaird -- beaird123 at peoplepc.com - Thursday, 02/15/01 03:49:27 GMT


J.W.Beaird
thear is a strong blacksmith Assa in north Texas NTBA
check out the web site NTBA .com

Bill Epps -- B-Epps at besmithy .com - Friday, 02/16/01 03:11:26 GMT


Hello, I'm begining to star learning about blacksmithing and together with my design background, I'm starting a studio of my own to design and build mission style furniture. Now yhat I have gottewn into the mission style furniture I would love to build my own POWERHAMMER, but I need some one to tell me where I can find blue print of a home made POWERHANNER. I thank you

Javier -- javiersantiago at home.com - Friday, 02/16/01 04:20:46 GMT


Boneman, Tool steel: Alameda Machinery, Oakland CA. They have pieces of left-over steel on shelves, mostly 4140. Call them and ask for Ron or Greg. Don't have # but will look it up and post later. TC

Tim Cisneros -- blacksmith at theforgeworks.com - Friday, 02/16/01 11:58:10 GMT


more pictures added... http://www.vianet.ca/~barney

Barney -- barney at vianet.on.ca - Saturday, 02/17/01 00:07:53 GMT


Barney,

You do nice work. It'd look even better with a red head holding.

No, not you, a good looking red head! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Saturday, 02/17/01 03:33:17 GMT


Thanks Paw Paw.. Still learning the lingo. More pictures in abit..That was my hand holding up the plate rack.Nice hand yeh..The Lawn Chicken sells well up here. Have made him to look like running, holding a worm, holding a plant pot etc..Making a turtle next from a Div cover off of a truck. More to follow. I do experement alot. Get bored making the same things all the time. But do them when ask for them. Chow for now Barney

Barney -- barney at vianet.on.ca - Sunday, 02/18/01 21:48:14 GMT


I am involved in a project that is a tad over my head, literally and figuratively. I am welding Stainless overhead with a MIG. My problem is I've only welded stainless a very little bit with my stick welder, 7018, on a bench. I'd never tried a MIG til Friday and I am now spoiled. Also one of thse hoods that darken when you strike an arc,great stuff! Also never tried overhead for any length of time. Mercy! Did I learn a LOT.

Mostly I was under cutting on my weld so turned the fire down to about 21 and ran wire at about 50. It drips on me! It is supposed to stay where I put it. But it quit under cutting. didn't get it done right so I will be doing it again and cleaning up some engrng points also. These were stress cracks not corosion as we thought going in.

Any way if anybody has some pointers that would be great! I spent half of the time rethreading the machine cause I couldn't hold an arc! And of course the dripping, after 4 hrs I was getting some good welds but they were very tall not spread over the area like I was able to do in my initial practice (vertical not overhead). Those little buggers (the cracks) disappeared on me as soon as I cleaned the surface and soapstone don't stand out like it does on other stuff I've done.

And as always thank you for your support.

Mills

Mills -- mills_fam2 at netzero.net - Monday, 02/19/01 13:33:33 GMT


Mills, Stainless Steel Gas Metal Arc Welding (mig) is another animal if you've never welded with it before. Of Course, you found out.
What size wire are you using. People will argue with me, but you'll have an easier time of it if you can use .035" diameter. If you're using .045" diameter you're putting down more wire than you can handle.
You should be using a tri-mix gas, something like 90% Helium,
7.5% Argon and 2.5% Carbon Dioxide. The gas flow on the flow meter should be approximately 25 to 35 CFH while welding overhead.
The contact tip/tube should be even with the end of the nozzle.
The wire should stick out from the contact tube no more than
1/4" to 3/8" maximum while welding.
Try pushing the gun. Have the arc in front of the nozzle. Travel toward the arc. This will make the weld puddle lay flatter.
Try all of this. Hope it helps.

Steve Rutterbush -- Hammerdown Forge - Monday, 02/19/01 16:56:39 GMT


Thanks Steve. Yes I am using .035 wire but only have a Ar/CO2 mix. CFH? I don't know what that is but the reg was registering at ~22 in whatever units it reads. It wouldn't go any higher so I will inspect it closer ...... May be a little oil would help?
Traveling toward the arc, the very idea! :) The little instruction I've had was mostly to get me to drag the stick. It never occurred to me to push it. That feels like the part that will make the most difference. All right ..DING! Round two

Mills -- fm23-9 - Monday, 02/19/01 20:49:00 GMT


Mills,
First, NEVER oil any type regulator. The oil may not hurt one type, but it will explode if used on oxygen. I know, you said oil for the 75/25. My point is that if you oil one and it helps whats it going to hurt to oil another? Some people think like that and that's what makes for bigtime injuries or death.DO NOT OIL ANY TYPE OF REGULATOR!!!
If a regulator doesn't work properly take to a repair station.

Now,CFH is Cubic Feet per Hour. How much flow you have exiting the nozzle. 22 is good. You shouldn't need more than that if it were a helium mix that would tend to flow upward. What are you welding?
You said Stainless, but what is it? Do you know what grade of Stainless? What grade of wire do you have? Look on the spool and find numbers that read something like ER-304, ER-308 or ER-316. Any numbers like that?
Talk to your welding gas supplier. Explain to them what you're welding and ask about the tri-mix. You may even be told that they recommend a four gas mix for stainless.
Again, be careful of any compressed gasses. Compressed gas is dangerous if mishandled.

Steve Rutterbush -- Hammerdown Forge - Monday, 02/19/01 23:41:15 GMT


Mills, I'd be using .035 309 wire and 100% argon if what you are welding is 304 or 316ish stainless and more than 3/16" thick. If it's thinner, maybe .023 wire or .030. I have not had any luck welding any stainless with 75Ar/25co2. Steve, what does the helium mix do for you? I've heard of it, but not used it. Always had good luck with straight argon. Learning more every day! Thanks. Mills, the only time I drag the gun is vertical down.

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Tuesday, 02/20/01 00:47:37 GMT


Yes sir. I must say that I meant that comment tongue in cheek. In retrospect, w/o the body language to go with it and that there may be those with NO clue, that could be a dangerous comment. Double checks on the witty remarks from now on.

As for the rest, I will have to use what I have with no possibilty of changing it. If I can't make it work, then it will have to wait til after I take a welding class or they will need to call someone such as yourself.

Your guidance is very much appreciated though as I have already made changes to my Ideal shop set up. again :)

Thanks
Mills

Mills -- mills_fam2 at netzero.net - Tuesday, 02/20/01 01:12:27 GMT


I am making tines for a tractor type tiller. What is best way to temper the metal.

Dwight -- Pddraughon at aol.com - Tuesday, 02/20/01 01:21:11 GMT


Hey Dwight; *what* kind of metal is it? Heat treat differs *a lot* depending on what you are using! The basics are: heat the metal till it no longer attracts a magnet then quench in [superquench, water, brine, oil] depending on what metal it was and then draw temper at
275-600 degF depending on what type of metal it is...

Thomas

Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at my-deja.com - Tuesday, 02/20/01 17:40:01 GMT


Dwight, what kind of rpm's will it be turning ? If you get tine too hard it can snap and maybe go flying for a good distance if spinning at high rpm's,I know on rotary mowers the blades will go for quite a ways after they rip right through the side of the deck. Better to resharpen or change the tine than see someone hurt.

Tom L -- Tjlapples at aol.com - Wednesday, 02/21/01 01:53:57 GMT


Tony, On 2-20-01 you asked me why I used a helium mix. If you use pure argon , which is perfectly acceptable, the weld metal will tend to pull away from the toe of the weld (the outside edge of the puddle) and the filler metal has a tendency to collect in the middle. Hence, you may get some undercutting and dripping while welding overhead. Of course, an experienced person may NOT get these little aggravations. The tri-mix is used because you can run in short circuit
mode which means that because the helium creates more arc electrical resistance (Higher heat) you should be able to turn the voltage down and get the same metal transfer that a different gas with less arc electrical resistance(colder heat) will give you. In other words, if you can turn the heat down you'll get less overhead drip.
Besides that, the helium mix is used because it has something to do with not hurting the corrosion resistance of the stainless. Not being an enginneer, I cannot go into carbon migration and all the fancy names that get bounced around in those conversations.

Did that answer your question?

Steve Rutterbush -- Hammerdown Forge - Wednesday, 02/21/01 15:22:59 GMT


Steve, yes, it answered my question beautifully. Thanks much. I can weld very well, (in my own opinion of course, grin) but I have never had formal welders training and those details are my shortcomings. My engineering is usally by the book, but my welding is mostly by the seat of the pants. I was welding long before I became an engineer. Thanks again!

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc.com - Wednesday, 02/21/01 17:29:20 GMT


Here's the location of a drawing for a shaving horse: http://www.voicenet.com/~rburton/horse.gif Thanks to L. Mills new member of the Saltfork Craftsmen ABA here in Oklahoma for showing this to me.

Jim Carothers -- colonel at fullnet.net - Friday, 02/23/01 03:08:12 GMT


Hello, never been here before.

Gary Kroeker -- garynbarb at feist.com - Saturday, 02/24/01 02:20:20 GMT


I'm looking for help determining what a blacksmith who may have travelled with Lewis and Clark in 1803 might have taken. There seems to be no record in the journals. Conjecture is welcome. Thanks.

Gary Kroeke -- garynbarb at feist.com - Saturday, 02/24/01 02:25:47 GMT


Gary,

Let me suggest you check the stories on the Anvilfire story page. Several if them are based in that time frame, and will give you some ideas as to HOW he would have worked.

Now, as to what he would have carried, VERY little. A small anvil, probably a stake anvil. A couple of hammers, probably no more than two. A couple of sets of tongs, again only a couple. Lewis & Clark used pack horses, not wagons, so weight would have been a VERY limiting factor. A 1" X 2" X 6' merchant bar of iron weighs over 40 pounds, I doubt if he would have carried more than two.

THE REVOLUTIONARY BLACKSMITH story on the story page (on the top of the 21st century page) talks about some of the problems he would have faced.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Saturday, 02/24/01 04:04:11 GMT


hello..does anyone know where i can find info on aging things that i have found by the blacksmiths mark on the stuff he has made...i use a metal detector as a hobby searching places where old homesteads used to be and i have come across some neat handmade farming tools..and the other day while cleaning some of this stuff i came across a mark tha thad to have been stamped on the pc by the blacksmith..i was wondering if anyone knew of a book or such that had a list of the marks some blacksmiths used in their trade to stamp on the things they made. by digging up this old stuff and trying to find the when and how it was used is a neat hobby of mine plus i think i am trying to preserve some history in the process. otherwise it will just rust away and no one will have ever know it was there in the first place...thanks

steve -- kazz at cox-internet.com - Monday, 02/26/01 03:23:18 GMT


Steve,

As far as I know, there has never been a central "registry" of touchmarks kept anywhere in the US. You might by searching some old
records in courthouses find an occasional reference to an individuals touchmark, but frankly I think the chances are very slim.

I agree that finding the things and preserving them is important. It would also be important to keep track of what was found where.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Monday, 02/26/01 03:35:52 GMT


paw-paw...thanks for the info..also i have a great program that i log the find,and the when and where of it for later referance.

steve -- kazz at cox-internet.com - Monday, 02/26/01 04:00:57 GMT


Steve,

GOOD! That's the way it SHOULD be done. Too many people, (and I've been guilty of it a time or two) pick things up, don't record them, and then later can't remember the where/when/how answers.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Monday, 02/26/01 04:39:26 GMT


What is the super quench used for?

Jeff -- Hornhunter322 at aol.com - Monday, 02/26/01 04:54:45 GMT


what do you use the super quench for? (soap)

jeff -- hornhunter322 at aol.com - Monday, 02/26/01 05:09:00 GMT


what do you use the super quench for? (soap)

jeff -- hornhunter322 at aol.com - Monday, 02/26/01 05:09:37 GMT


Steve: Glad you're recording that info. I'm a professional historic archaeologist. Most of my jobs are in clearing the way for road construction (or other stuff involving federal money), and all too often I'm not given nearly enough time to find out what used to be in a given area. Archaeologists are supposed to fuss at guys like you, but I've found that guys like you are usually the most knowledgeable about local history. Keep those records, and if you see any road construction going on, please ask the engineer in charge to get you in touch with the archaeologists! When it comes down to it, we all are just trying to save the past for the future. The more info we share, the more we both know.

Jeff: It's to harden mild steel more severely than plain water. Don't try it with any high-carbon steel!

Alan L -- longmire at premiernet.net - Monday, 02/26/01 13:25:34 GMT


Gary Kroeke:
I suggest you go to your local library and check out the book
"Undaunted Courage" By Stephen A. Ambrose. If I am not mistaken there are some extensive list of the items they took with them. It may surprise you what they had. Remember that The Lewis and Clark expedition was ostensibly to find a water route to the pacific and that they went by boat for a substantial portion of the trip, allowing them to at least start out with a considerable amount of goods.

David White -- dwhite at siumed.edu - Monday, 02/26/01 17:58:24 GMT


I guess it's time to tell one on myself.

I had some punches that a friend had given me. Mystery metal as far as I knew. I made a reversed "TUIT" punch so I could make round tuits. (grin)

When I finished making the punch, I heated it to non-magnetic, quenched it in Super Quench. The punch SCREAMED when it went into the quench. Didn't hiss/steam, it SCREAMED.

Second time I hit it with a hammer, it shattered into a dozen pieces.

Turns out it was S7 tool steel! (grin) Taught ME a lesson. Super Quench is for MILD steel ONLY! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Monday, 02/26/01 20:14:50 GMT


Looking for journeyman blacksmith to work in San Francisco area. Should be versed in most forging processes and able to work with 300 lb hammer. Clean, brush teeth regularly and no spitting on the floor!
Call 415-550-9328

Jefferson Mack -- mackmtl at aol.com - Monday, 02/26/01 23:38:46 GMT


Looking for journeyman blacksmith to work in San Francisco area. Should be versed in most forging processes and able to work with 300 lb hammer. Clean, brush teeth regularly and no spitting on the floor!
Call 415-550-9328

Jefferson Mack -- mackmtl at aol.com - Monday, 02/26/01 23:39:04 GMT


Jefferson,

If he can swing a 300# hammer, he can probably spit anywhere he darn well pleases! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Tuesday, 02/27/01 17:38:35 GMT


Well I can see that finding a power hammer isn't as easy as I had thought can any one point me in the right direction???

Ted -- walkntree at casco.net - Tuesday, 02/27/01 23:12:16 GMT


Well I can see that finding a power hammer isn't as easy as I had thought can any one point me in the right direction???

Ted -- walkntree at casco.net - Tuesday, 02/27/01 23:14:39 GMT


Ted,

At the top of the page, or on the links page, click on the banner for Bruce Wallace of WallMetal. Bruce buys and sells used power hammers, and will deal honestly with you.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Tuesday, 02/27/01 23:46:00 GMT


jim - copper tools
believe it or not i so alot of tin and copper foil work with stainless leather working tools. the have all sorts of burnishing shapes and a bottle jack press works a little better than a hard smack with a hammer.most of the sharper edged tools stamp easily.
vitus

vitus the mad -- vitusdmad at hotmail.com - Wednesday, 02/28/01 02:31:22 GMT


Vitus,

But I'm stamping hot steel, not copper or tin foil.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at paw-paws-forge.com - Wednesday, 02/28/01 17:33:20 GMT



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